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Ally Mcintosh

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The best courses with five or more par-3's
« on: December 19, 2011, 12:33:14 PM »
Tom Simpson said that the ideal number of par-3's on a course was five...

How many of the best courses have five or more par-3's?... And I'm not just talking excellent... I mean best of the best... Top-100 world type level?

In Ireland, Ballybunion comes to mind first.

Robert Mercer Deruntz

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Re: The best courses with five or more par-3's
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2011, 12:53:13 PM »
Rye.  One of the most underated courses in the world.  I once claimed St. Annes had the best par 3's in the British Iles, but that was before playing Rye.  Is there a better set of 3's in the world?

Anthony Gray

Re: The best courses with five or more par-3's
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2011, 12:55:06 PM »
Pacific Dunes and Cape Kidnappers come to mind for some reason.

Mike Boehm

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Re: The best courses with five or more par-3's
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2011, 01:16:42 PM »
Kingsley has 5

mike_malone

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Re: The best courses with five or more par-3's
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2011, 01:17:23 PM »
 Glen Mills and Rolling Green both are high on my list. I think that 5 par threes allows for variety and that is what these two courses have in their threes. They also are critical in matches . The par three near the end of the round is often crucial in determining the winner. I think this particularly true if it is a short one. For both GM and RG #16 is a short par three.
AKA Mayday

Jim Nugent

Re: The best courses with five or more par-3's
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2011, 01:19:10 PM »
St. Louis CC has five, including two in a row at #'s 2 (Biarritz) and 3 (Eden). 

David_Tepper

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Re: The best courses with five or more par-3's
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2011, 01:21:50 PM »
Golspie (near Dornoch) has a very nice collection of 5 par-3's, but I don't think it would make anyone's list of "best courses."

One of the Berkshire courses (never can remember if it is the Red or Blue) has 6 par-3's.

Bruce Katona

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Re: The best courses with five or more par-3's
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2011, 01:24:58 PM »
Five par 3's will generally get you to a par of 71......the higher handicap players like a par 71 as it gives them a chance for a better score (par 5's can cause danmage to the scorecard of the average golfer).

If the par 3's can be at varied lengths:

- wedge/short iron
-7 iron
-5 iron
-long iron/hybrid

and wedge/short iron , the average "bogey" golfer will enjoy these.....no more than 1 over water or play may back up with the customers trying to clear the hazards.



Bill_McBride

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Re: The best courses with five or more par-3's
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2011, 01:38:25 PM »
The Balcomie at Crail has six.    Painswick has seven.  Par 3s are fun!

Adrian_Stiff

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Re: The best courses with five or more par-3's
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2011, 01:46:42 PM »
If you are talking WORLD top 100, then five par 3 holes are relatively rare, my guess would be less than 10% have 5, Id guess at 1% have just 2 and say 4% have 3...that leaves 85% as having the 'standard' 4 short holes. Personally, I like the 5 and would look to have 4 or 5 short holes in a design.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Mark_Rowlinson

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Re: The best courses with five or more par-3's
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2011, 01:52:42 PM »
Royal St David's may not be world top 100 and certainly not a GCA top hundred, but it is one of my favourite Welsh courses and it has a very good set of five par 3s.

PCCraig

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Re: The best courses with five or more par-3's
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2011, 02:02:35 PM »
I believe White Bear Yacht Club in Minnesota (Golfweek Top 100 Classic) has 5 par-3's.
H.P.S.

Chris Roselle

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Re: The best courses with five or more par-3's
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2011, 02:08:11 PM »
  There are a few highly regarded courses in the Golf Asssociation of Philadelphia that have 5 par-3's (besides Rolling Green and Glen Mills which have already been mentioned)...Off the top of my head I can think of...

1. Applebrook GC (Hanse)
2. Manufacturers' G&CC (William Flynn)
3. Torresdale-Frankford CC (Donald Ross)

  As someone who sets up golf courses for GAPp events for a living these courses always present me with a unique challenge of trying to have players hit different clubs off the tee as possible...

Scott Warren

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Re: The best courses with five or more par-3's
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2011, 02:12:19 PM »
A lot of the great courses in England have five or more par threes.

Rye, The Berkshire (Red), Swinley Forest, The Addington, St. Enodoc, West Sussex, Worplesdon, New Zealand.

Golspie and Crail... maybe not World 100 but probably World Top 50 Underrated.

Hardelot (Les Pins) in France is another that qualifies.

Painswick has seven!

Scott Warren

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Re: The best courses with five or more par-3's
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2011, 02:16:23 PM »
And if you accept 20-hole courses, then The European Club has five and Barnbougle (Lost Farm) has six.

Ben Stephens

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Re: The best courses with five or more par-3's
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2011, 02:22:34 PM »
Liphook!  ;D


Dan Grossman

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Re: The best courses with five or more par-3's
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2011, 02:24:52 PM »
In my opinion, when the lengths and shot-values on the par 3s are varied, having five par 3s can really make a course great!  It provides some variety in the round and can test mid to long irons that sometimes don't get used in today's technology driven world.

Rustic Canyon has five par 3s and I think Gil Hanse did a nice job of varying the lengths.  

#4 - 165 yards to an undulating and semi-blind green
#6 - 215 yards slightly downhill to a green which slopes away from the tee and has a huge biarritz-type swale in front.  One of the most demanding holes on the course
#8 - 125 yards - just a great short par 3, especially if the pin position is on the top left shelf.  The green is diabolical
#15 - 145 yards - uphill to a semi-blind three tiered green.  I'm not a huge fan of this hole or the three tiered green, but it is certainly challenging as I found out yesterday.
#17 - 190 yards downhill to a green which slopes left to right and can play like a redan (or a reverse redan?) if the conditions are correct.

All above yardages are from the black tees.  While I usually play the blue tees, I really enjoy playing the par 3s from the black tees as I think it highlights one of the best features of the course and provides for greater shot variety and challenge.

Ian Andrew

Re: The best courses with five or more par-3's
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2011, 03:16:03 PM »
Canada's two entries into the Top 100 in the World

St. George's 3,6,8,14,16
Highlands Links 3,5,10,12,17

Others
Jasper Park 4,7,9,12,15
Banff (original) 6,8,12,14,17
Capilano 4,9,11,14,16

That's all of Thompson's Best 5 ..... mmmm ...

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: The best courses with five or more par-3's
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2011, 03:32:49 PM »
A few of my courses have five par-3's including some of the best ones ... Pacific Dunes, Cape Kidnappers, and both courses at Stonewall.  Our new project in New Zealand will have five, too; but they wouldn't let me do it in China!

Pasatiempo is another that hasn't been mentioned.




George Freeman

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Re: The best courses with five or more par-3's
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2011, 03:44:15 PM »
Our new project in New Zealand will have five...

Tom, not to get off topic, but this is the first I've heard of a new project for you and your team in NZ.  If you're able to do so, can you shed a little light on it??

Mayhugh is my hero!!

"I love creating great golf courses.  I love shaping earth...it's a canvas." - Donald J. Trump

Tom ORourke

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Re: The best courses with five or more par-3's
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2011, 03:53:21 PM »
Not many people seem to like Half Moon Bay (Ocean) but I do. They have 5 par threes, 5 par fives, and only 8 par fours. I think par fours are the heart of a course and I am fine with 5 threes, but I would prefer 3 par fives for a par 70 with 10 par fours. The first time I played that course I played the par threes with PW, 8 iron, 5 iron, 3 wood, 3 iron so it gives the designer a chance to make you hit a variety of clubs, so that is okay with me. Better than two woods and two wedges.

Wade Whitehead

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Re: The best courses with five or more par-3's
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2011, 04:06:58 PM »
The Cascades has five par threes.

WW

Tim Passalacqua

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Re: The best courses with five or more par-3's
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2011, 04:25:36 PM »
I have to agree with Dan.  Rustic Canyon par 3's are excellent.  They are all quite different and a lot of fun.  Nice descriptions, Dan.

Phil McDade

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Re: The best courses with five or more par-3's
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2011, 04:25:52 PM »
Lawsonia -- which ought to be top 100 Classic in the US -- has five.

Mike Benham

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Re: The best courses with five or more par-3's
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2011, 05:03:50 PM »

MPCC Shore ...
"... and I liked the guy ..."

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