Follow-up on Ran's post - Lets talk Morrish

[Jay Flemma]

Ran's right - we rarely if ever talk about Jay Morrish, so I'll get the ball rolling

My favorite Morrish course is the Boulders (South).  I spent three days there years ago, before I was into studying golf architecture, so I'll admit, I was more entranced with the fact that he routed the course around the monzonite stones, but I remember the routing had basck to back par-3s at one point (10 and 11 I think?) and ended on strong par-5.  It was a stunning setting and a wonderful resort, though a bit pricey.

I paid $299 per night for unlimited golf (I played 45 holes) and a HUGE casita.  Though pricey, I didn't feel I overpaid.  Have any of you done the same?  Is the price worth all that golf and a great room?  How does the VALUE measure up?

Morrish also used to design with Weiskopf.  I'm not a huge fan of Tom's work as I feel the first few holes of most Weiskopf courses are a bit of a throwaway - usually the course starts at 6 asndf the sixth hole always seems the same - a short narrow par-4 - Quial Holow, The Falls, Troon North - the 6th hole always resembles others he did.  Quail underwhelmed me.

I thought La Cantera was okay - some really good, some mezza-mezza from an architecture standpoint, but it was overpriced.  That wassn't worth $225.  TPC Scottsdale "is what it is." Fun and a nice day and great place to have huge steak for dinner and great clubhouse, and a nice day off from work in the desert, but pricey, excpet in high summer when you can get away under $100.

What do you all think?

[Andy Troeger]

I'm surprised by your affinity for Boulders South. I remember the hole with the big boulders...and not much else. I think its at the lower end of Morrish's efforts that I've seen.

I think Forest Highlands Canyon is the best of the collaborations between Weiskopf and Morrish...nothing else really close. The Rim is good too...I don't see a lot of unique stuff at Double Eagle other than perhaps the stretch from 5-9 and the last couple holes.

Solo, I really like Ravenna in Colorado. Its cart oriented because of terrain (you'd really only need a couple shuttles, but those spots are rough), but has some really great holes. I like Sanctuary, but think nearby Ravenna is better. Pine Canyon and Stone Canyon in AZ are both good too.

[Jay Flemma]

Again, Andy, when i played years and years ago, I hadn't begun to study GCA, so i only was looking at the natural setting and playability anglers and whether it was a good value.  It was striking visually, and a great three day vacation.  I like Sedona Golf Resort for the same reason.  Sedona is affordable, and beautiful and a pretty easy golf course.  A nice time.

[Tom Yost]

Sedona Golf Resort is a Gary Panks design.

The 36 holes at the Boulders has evolved from a series of different designers and routings so it's hard to say who did what.   Morrish was just the most recent but I think both Red Lawrence and Jack Snyder did some of the routings.

I'm only familiar with Morrish's work with Wieskopf, a lot of their collaborations here in Arizona.  Since their split, Morrish has done a few well regarded courses, none of which I have played.  Stone Canyon, Talking Rock, and Pine Canyon here in AZ.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

I played Morrish's Bent Creek CC in Lancaster, PA this past summer. It's a good members course with some very good holes but, overall, not outstanding.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Jay gave a tremendous talk to a group of us on night in Arizona. His insight and candor was enjoyed by all.

[Sam Morrow]

I like his work, even the work he did with Weiskopf. I just went through the Morrish website and I've played the following of his courses.

I'm one of the few people who seem to like Las Colinas it's not great but I've played far worse.

I think Mira Vista is a very underrated club in South Ft Worth, it also has one of my all-time favorite practice areas and probably one of my top locker rooms.

Bentwater on Lake Conroe is a decent course, had a handful of pretty good holes.

I've always been a fan of Circle C in Austin (I think it's now called Grey Rock) my only knock on that course has always been that it's almost a mile from the clubhouse to first tee.

Buffalo Creek in Rockwall (DFW) was a solid course from what I remember, in fact kind of reminds me of Bentwater.

I've always been a big fan of LaCantera (in fact maybe the only one).

The Golf Club at Castle Hills is a very good public course that has a very Hill Country style look and feel to it.

Lantana is very good for a housing development course and has some really cool looking bunkering.

Lastly I will take all the blasting to come my way but Pine Dunes might be my favorite course in Texas and I think it's better than Whispering Pines.

[mike_beene]

Sam,except for the 18th hole Pine Dunes I agree.

[Sam Morrow]

Sam,except for the 18th hole Pine Dunes I agree.

I kind of liked 18. It's funny, the three best courses in The Piney Woods all have a weak 18th. Crown Colony is very good but the par 5 18th is one of the worst, most out of place holes I've ever played and 18 at Whispering Pines is not a very good hole.

[Bill_McBride]

Was Morrish involved with Weiskopf at Forest Dunes in Michigan?   I really liked that course. 

[Andy Troeger]

Bill,
I believe that was only Weiskopf, but I don't know for sure.

[Kirk Gill]

I enjoyed playing Ravenna, but having to cross that hogback in the middle of the round isn't something I'd enjoy having to do on a regular basis. Overall I thought the holes on the western side of the hogback were more enjoyable.

I've also played the course now called Colorado National Golf Club. It's a good public facility that lots of my friends like a lot, although it's not a favorite of mine. I've also heard that others besides Morrish were involved in that design, but can't confirm that as fact.

[Tom Yost]

Was Morrish involved with Weiskopf at Forest Dunes in Michigan?   I really liked that course. 

It is my understanding that the last course as a team was The Rim Club in Payson AZ, circa 1999.

[Anthony Gray]

  He and his son did some renorvations at a course where I lived. THe area had extreme routing challenges going through a neighborhood. Two back to back par 3s were converted to a par 4 that crossed a hazard twice making a very good hole. THe other work was also outstanding.

  Anthony

[Mike Hendren]

Jay gave a tremendous talk to a group of us on night in Arizona. His insight and candor was enjoyed by all.

Tiger, was that at The Rim.  My memory stinks.

Bogey

[Jay Flemma]

Sedona Golf Resort is a Gary Panks design.

I know that, I was merely saying that I like Sedona for the same non-architecture reasons I like The Boulders.

[Jay Flemma]

Bill,
I believe that was only Weiskopf, but I don't know for sure.

That one is just Weiskopf.  Great back nine!

[Tom Yost]

Sedona Golf Resort is a Gary Panks design.

I know that, I was merely saying that I like Sedona for the same non-architecture reasons I like The Boulders.

Gotcha.

Indeed, the surrounding landscapes at the Boulders as well as the Pinnacle Peak area (Desert Highlands, Troon North, etc) provide a visually stunning setting for golf and perhaps contributing to the high rankings of some of these courses.

[Jay Flemma]

Tom that could be true.  They are also good course sin their own right...not huge home runs from a black letter architecture standpoint as we define it here, but good work none the less and enjoyable.