Is it bad design if you are on the green and need to chip?

[Anthony Gray]

  ?

[Matt_Cohn]

Maybe from a maintenance perspective, but not from a golf/"shot values" perspective.

[David_Elvins]

No.

[Tim Martin]

no

[Ronald Montesano]

Is that Yale 10, Tim?

[Mark McKeever]

That's 9 at Yale I believe.  That pin must be stuck way up front!!

 Mark

[Tim Martin]

Is that Yale 10, Tim?

RoMo-That it is.

[Anthony Gray]

  How about 17 at PB?

  Anthony

[Carl Rogers]

What about the 6th at Riviera?  Bunker in the green ....... ?

[Andy Stamm]

I think it is for the most part, unless the course is really willing to let me chip.

The 17th at Pebble is a great example. The green's pretty small, and the right half is used a lot. I don't really feel comfortable pitching the ball from there to the back part of that green because of the likelihood that I'll damage the green (in a spot that'll be in play the next day). But I don't like not playing the shot that I think best just because of that. So, I'm stuck. In that position in a casual round I wouldn't pitch it out of respect to fellow players and the course. But, I think that should be avoided at all cost.

I'd almost be more ok with it if it were a local rule that you had to putt. Then I'd know the consequence of hitting it there and wouldn't be conflicted about hitting my best shot. But generally I don't like this.

This can happen occassionally on many greens and that's fine. But when it can happen often, I think it should be avoided.

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Andy, that's a good example, but wasn't the 17th a lot wider at one time than it is now?  Maybe, in that case, it's more of a maintenance issue-I don't know. 

I think a lot of the onus is on, or should be on, us as players-hit it to the right section of green, and there's no issue. 

I recall a lot of players in the 2010 Open hitting shots to the left side of 17 at PB that landed in the front bunker-whether that was by design (these guys are great bunker players as a whole, so that's my best guess) or through accident, I don't know. 

[Jim_Kennedy]

Is that Yale 10, Tim?

RoMo-That it is.

I imagine you guys are talking score, not routing.  

[Brian Potash]

When I watch the pros in a situation where chipping on the green is an option I am always anticipating the outcome.

However, if I were to be faced with the same shot, I would almost always tend to put simply because I didn't want to risk causing potential damage to a green relative to the unimportance of the shot I was about to hit.

On the highly unlikely chance that the shot held some significant importance to me I would probably chip, but otherwise would almost definitely put out of respect to the green.

I do not thing it is bad design but think it is bad form for higher handicaps to chip on the green except in rare instances.

In some ways the problem takes care of itself as those who would likely cause damage to the green either would not risk the difficulty of the shot, would not want to cause damage to the course, or do not know that you are even allowed to chip on a green.

Bottom line, I do not think this is bad design.

Brian

[Andy Stamm]

Andy, that's a good example, but wasn't the 17th a lot wider at one time than it is now?  Maybe, in that case, it's more of a maintenance issue-I don't know. 

I think a lot of the onus is on, or should be on, us as players-hit it to the right section of green, and there's no issue. 

I recall a lot of players in the 2010 Open hitting shots to the left side of 17 at PB that landed in the front bunker-whether that was by design (these guys are great bunker players as a whole, so that's my best guess) or through accident, I don't know. 

I think it might have been, but it's been like that for a long time, since the 60s at least.

I think it's an awful hole really. There's almost no way to get it on the back part of that green over the bunker and get it to hold. Down wind no way. Hard greens, good luck. And short right is a very popular miss for all players. Playing short right and putting/chipping back is probably a good play. That part of the green is small but accessible. From there down in 2 is no cinch, but it's feasible. But, it's a gamble if you can leave a putt or a chip. If you're going to chip, no problem. But if you're going to putt with no way to get it close, the bunker's probably better.

[Tim Martin]

Is that Yale 10, Tim?

RoMo-That it is.

I imagine you guys are talking score, not routing.  

Jim-I meant to put in the wink emoticon instead of the smile as of course it is # 9. I just changed it to the roll eyes for emphasis. 

[Jay Flemma]

Yeah, 6 at Riviera...also 7 at CD?  A few other places with kidney greens...10 at Dismal River, maybe?

[Sam Morrow]

I don't think so, I think usually it just means that you've hit a poor approach. I hate to have to chip on a green but I know that McBride dared me to do it while Bernhardt wasn't looking on 16 at Champions.

[Scott Warren]

A few players in the recent Aussie Open at The Lakes had to chip to the middle right Sunday pin on 14 after hitting it on the far front right with a bunker eating into the green between their ball and the hole. Was fun to watch.

I played the course the next week and there was the evidence of a few little "dollar bill" divots from their shots.

[mike_beene]

Hadn't thought about what the stymie would do to modern greens

[Jim Nugent]

I recall a lot of players in the 2010 Open hitting shots to the left side of 17 at PB that landed in the front bunker-whether that was by design (these guys are great bunker players as a whole, so that's my best guess) or through accident, I don't know. 

I think partly by design.  They couldn't hold the green by flying their shots on.  So they tried to bounce it up through the side of the bunker.  A few succeeded, but the big majority did not.   

[Ally Mcintosh]

Need to chip or want to chip Anthony?

Personally, I believe that when designing a green, the line of all pin positions should be achievable from every point on the green. That doesn't need to make it easy or even the best option... You may even have to putt through part of the collar / fairway to get there.... But the choice to chip needs to be a choice, not a pre-requisite.

[Sean_A]

I don't mind a hole where one can't get to the flag by putting if on the wrong section of green, but two of these is ott.  That said, chipping has to be an option if an archie is going to design this way.  If clubs don't want chipping on greens than there shouldn't be greens where chipping is the best option.

Ciao

[Cory Lewis]

Not at all.  One of my favorite golfing memories is driving the E green at Ballyneal because I caught a big slope of course!  I was on the front right corner of the green and the pin was on the back right corner.  I had to hit a pitch shot and loved the experience.