no water on the course?

[Jud_T]

Shane,

I guess it depends on whether you're looking at my Best list or my Favorite list, which is always in flux.  And I'm referring to water that comes directly into play.  So for instance,  Pac Dunes doesn't have any IMO, although in a 40 mph gale it might be a tough argument.    Pebble does, which is but one reason it ain't one of my favorites...

[Kalen Braley]

Jud,

I did include Pacific Dunes in those 15 courses.  It may be debatable though depending on how one looks at it...either way, the affect is the same...the ball is gone!!

[Shane Wright]

Shane,

I guess it depends on whether you're looking at my Best list or my Favorite list, which is always in flux.  And I'm referring to water that comes directly into play.  So for instance,  Pac Dunes doesn't have any IMO, although in a 40 mph gale it might be a tough argument.    Pebble does, which is but one reason it ain't one of my favorites...

Fair enough. You are a well traveled golfer though, and you are basically eliminating all but a few seaside links courses as your "favorites." Kalen's argument is what I was getting at.  It may not be physically in the water, but it is gone.  There are many seaside courses with lateral water/beach in play. And in my opinion, they come directly into play, i.e. #4 Pacific Dunes

[Jud_T]

Shane,

I guess the point is that at holes like #4 at PD if one wants to be conservative one can bunt the ball around on solid ground without crossing any water.

[Kalen Braley]

Shane,

I guess the point is that at holes like #4 at PD if one wants to be conservative one can bunt the ball around on solid ground without crossing any water.

Jud,

True enough, but the same could be said for TPC 17... and I don't think anyone would consider that hole as anything less than an extreme example of a water hole!  

[Garland Bayley]

Shane,

I guess the point is that at holes like #4 at PD if one wants to be conservative one can bunt the ball around on solid ground without crossing any water.

Jud,

True enough, but the same could be said for TPC 17... and I don't think anyone would consider that hole as anything less than an extreme example of a water hole!  

Kalen,

GET REAL!

[Andy Troeger]

I think its kind of extreme to say Pacific Dunes doesn't have water on it. Unless you play it up, you're hitting over the cliff to get to the fairway, and you don't get to disqualify that tee just because you choose not to play it.

Kalen, the better example is Cypress Point. You can bunt it around that one too, just like you theoretically could from #4 at PD from the back tee. Doesn't hide that there's water there!

Its ok to have water on golf courses...nothing wrong with a natural hazard!

Quickly going through my top 50, only a handful don't have water. Even Prairie Dunes has a pond off #11 tee.

[Jud_T]

Andy,

Point taken.  However, how long is that carry?  I've never wandered back there, but I'm guessing for those who actually should be playing the tips that it's not really "in play"...

[Andy Troeger]

Jud,
No idea. I just took a few photos and moved up. Its probably significant when into the winter wind. Downwind, my guess is that its not so much the carry as the angle--especially with any breeze blowing off the ocean you have to start it fairly near the cliff to avoid going way left.

I would argue though even without the carry that the cliff is in play there and at least a hole or two at Bandon Dunes. Even something like Arcadia Bluffs--I could hook it left off the cliff on #12. The carry on #13 isn't really water but the big bodies of water next to the course count for something.  Its probably semantics at some level.