[Anthony Gray]

  Which are the best?

[Mark Saltzman]

Wolf Creek.


I was thinking of a somewhat similar question today...

If a golf course is designed to be carts mandatory...and green to tee transitions are long.. can it still have a great or very good or good routing?

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Lakota Canyon and Sanctuary in CO.

[Joe Bentham]

no

[Andy Troeger]

For as much as we talk about "cartball" I actually think a good number of courses we describe as tough walks are still very walkable for an athletic golfer assuming reasonable weather conditions. Only a few, perhaps including Sanctuary, are truly unwalkable for someone wanting to do so. At Ironbridge in Colorado, which has to be the longest most mountainous trek of a course that I've seen, the pro told me that they have had guys walk it...and not just a few.

For courses where 95% plus of normal people will take carts, I really enjoyed Black Rock, Paa-Ko Ridge, Ravenna, and Lakota Canyon. All mountain courses over severe train. Some of the transitions are long on each course, but many are not. Sanctuary and Wolf Creek are fun too.

Other than those that automatically dismiss the concept (which is a bigger group here than in the general golfing population)...I think we can come up with interesting mountain courses. Are there any out there unwalkable by designer choice that are great? I can't think of any.

[Tom_Doak]

Quick now, how many great courses have wall to wall cart paths?

Hint:  it's not very many.

[Andy Troeger]

Pretty sure that Pebble does, so I would guess Spyglass does too.

I'm not saying any of these cart oriented courses are top 50 in the world, by the way.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Shadow Creek?

[Kalen Braley]

Just looked at the aerial...Pasa is wall to wall!

Edit,  Also from the top 20
- The Alotian
- Whistling Straits
- Muirfield Village

[David_Tepper]

The Plantation Course at Kapalua should be pretty high up on the list.

[Peter Ferlicca]

I would nominate Stone Eagle.  It does not have wall to wall cart path, far from it to be honest.  But it is still walkable by all means.  If you aren't completely out of shape you can walk Stone Eagle.  BUT, if you do take a cart it is one of the best experiences around on a nice afternoon with the sunsets.  

[William_G]

Quick now, how many great courses have wall to wall cart paths?

Hint:  it's not very many.

and those courses that want to continue to be great or be great have heard that.

For instance, we walked Shadow Creek last year as the GM is aware of the value that walking their oasis provides to the experience.. we did a little hiking, but it was great as they were preparing for their golf season

[jonathan_becker]

I would nominate Stone Eagle.  It does not have wall to wall cart path, far from it to be honest.  But it is still walkable by all means.  If you aren't completely out of shape you can walk Stone Eagle.  BUT, if you do take a cart it is one of the best experiences around on a nice afternoon with the sunsets.  

You beat me to it, Peter!

I know that most ride here but IIRC, you have your own walker's course set up for SE at the fronts of some of the holes, correct?

[Andy Troeger]

Just looked at the aerial...Pasa is wall to wall!

Edit,  Also from the top 20
- The Alotian
- Whistling Straits
- Muirfield Village

Not sure I buy Whistling Straits--isn't it walking only? I do recall paths, but might those be for maintenance use, primarily? Muirfield Village is a pretty easy walk too.

[Bill_McBride]

Ballyhack.

Unless you are Craig Disher and Evan Fleischer.   

[Joe Leenheer]

Just looked at the aerial...Pasa is wall to wall!

Edit,  Also from the top 20
- The Alotian
- Whistling Straits
- Muirfield VillagI

Not sure I buy Whistling Straits--isn't it walking only? I do recall paths, but might those be for maintenance use, primarily? Muirfield Village is a pretty easy walk too.

Muirfield does have wall to wall and carts are restricted to paths pretty much the entire year. I did not find it to be an "easy" walk and I do so frequently.

Firestone (all 3 courses) were riding only until a year or two ago.  Not saying they are great courses, but I was always shocked that a tour course didn't allow walking.  Now you can take caddies on the south.  Sharon GC (a sleeper great) is riding only.

[Sam Morrow]

How about Dallas National? I feel for the forecaddies, you can walk but I wouldn't do it very often.

[Andy Troeger]

Joe,
I'll stick with easy on Muirfield Village. Its not pancake flat so I guess you can call it moderate if you like, but its certainly not a candidate for discussion of "riding only." Dallas National didn't wear me out either, but its the tougher of the two.  I wouldn't want to walk it when its 100 degrees in Dallas...but I wouldn't even want to be outside then...

[Sam Morrow]

Joe,
I'll stick with easy on Muirfield Village. Its not pancake flat so I guess you can call it moderate if you like, but its certainly not a candidate for discussion of "riding only." Dallas National didn't wear me out either, but its the tougher of the two.  I wouldn't want to walk it when its 100 degrees in Dallas...but I wouldn't even want to be outside then...

When I was there it was about 105, I admit I didn't look but I can't imagine there are many spots where you can take a short cut if you're on foot.

[Tom_Doak]

Whistling Straits has wall to wall cart paths?  When did they put those in?  I thought it was supposed to be a walking course.

The one with wall to wall paths that people missed is Riviera.  But that's about it ... when I counted years ago there were only 3 courses in the top 50 ... Pebble, Riviera and Muirfield Village.  And, of course, none of the three require you to take a cart; they're all very walkable.

[PCCraig]

Whistling Straits doesn't have "wall to wall" cart paths. It's still a walking only course.

[Carl Rogers]

Do I assume that no Mike Strantz can be considered great?
Tobacco Road
Royal New Kent

I agree with the comment above about Ballyhack, walkable by mountain goats or youngsters.

[Kalen Braley]

Thats my bad on Whistling Straits.  I was looking at the aerials, and interpreted the abundant maintenance trails to be cart paths.

I wasn't trying to intentionally spread mis-information there.

[Scott_Burroughs]

To me, "riding only" means walking is not allowed at any time, and how many great ones have that rule?  Likely not many.

Many of the courses listed in this thread are not carts-required.  Kapalua, Tobacco Road, Royal New Kent, Stone Eagle, & Ballyhack all allow walking....I know because I walked them all, except Stone Eagle in the 110+ degree heat (Drop it to 90, and I'd walk it).  Quite surprised to see Tobacco Road mentioned at all....there are, what, 3 mildly long walks between holes on the entire course?  9-10, 12-13, and 14-15.  Walked it all 8 times I've played it.

[Craig Disher]

I consider Ballyhack walkable and I'm neither a mountain goat nor all that young    The problem there is that some of the walks are well around the line of play and require too much time - not acceptable if you're playing with others who are in carts. Playing on my own or only with other walkers, the long walks would only add a few more minutes to the round.

Royal New Kent is unwalkable in my book. Some of the distances between greens and tees are so long that you could forget why you are there in the first place.

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