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Anthony Gray

Easiest hole on the course
« on: December 12, 2011, 02:52:26 PM »


  Where should it come in the round?



Mark Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Easiest hole on the course
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2011, 02:56:51 PM »
from my perspective, somewhere between 15-17.   I think there should always be a chance to make up shots on the back.   Also having an "easy" hole at a likely matchplay finishing hole adds some intrigue.

I'd also add that I'd like to see the hardest hole in the same range, giving additional space for a leader to give shots up in stroke play.

Morgan Clawson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Easiest hole on the course
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2011, 03:48:12 PM »
I lke the 1st hole to be the easiest or certainly one of the easiest to help ease you into the round...

jim_lewis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Easiest hole on the course
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2011, 03:59:45 PM »
Right after the toughest hole on the course.
"Crusty"  Jim
Freelance Curmudgeon

Anthony Gray

Re: Easiest hole on the course
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2011, 04:50:59 PM »
I lke the 1st hole to be the easiest or certainly one of the easiest to help ease you into the round...

  This is my belief. TOC is a good example although 18 is a little easier.

  Anthony


Travis Dewire

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Easiest hole on the course
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2011, 10:34:12 PM »
1st !!!

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Easiest hole on the course
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2011, 03:25:53 AM »
1st !!!

Generally speaking, I'd disagree with this. Who wants to walk off the first green knowing your best chance at a birdie is already behind you? Especially if you didn't make it!

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Easiest hole on the course
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2011, 04:25:27 AM »
I like the easiest hole to break-up a difficult stretch.

Ciao   
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Neil White

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Easiest hole on the course
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2011, 08:39:22 AM »
I like the easiest hole to break-up a difficult stretch.

Ciao   

I'm with Sean on this one - plus I also like a hole that looks hard yet plays easy if course managed properly.........

Neil.

Pete Blaisdell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Easiest hole on the course
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2011, 09:17:33 AM »
#10

I think we subconsciously treat the turn as a new beginning especially if we didn'y display our A game on the front.

It's always been my experience that if I birdie the first couple of holes, I don't finish well but if I get off to a good start on the back side, I salvage a decent round.

Quick short story--I started a round once triple--triple ---bogey but then birdied 6 holes in a row with two chip ins. Crazy game, nothing like it on the planet. What's not to love??
' Golf courses are like wives and the prom queen doesn't always make for the best wife "

Cristian

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Easiest hole on the course
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2011, 10:11:54 AM »
easy, not likely to make triple: 1st hole

easy, good birdie chance: 16, or 17

Michael Wharton-Palmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Easiest hole on the course
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2011, 10:19:30 AM »
why does there have to be one?
It would be nice for an architect I would think, to not have any hole on a course that people thought of as easy..or even hard for that matter...just good golf holes.
When I think of great courses that I have layed in tournaments, I cannot really think of ant hole that I would call the easiest on the course....perhaps that is just me on my fear of golfing karma ;D

Ross Harmon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Easiest hole on the course
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2011, 11:26:23 AM »
easy, not likely to make triple: 1st hole

easy, good birdie chance: 16, or 17

I agree! I hate starting with a double or triple... there's a definitely few courses with some tough first holes! Great to get a birdie late in the round, helps redeem a bad round, or makes a good round even better!

Tim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Easiest hole on the course
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2011, 12:11:31 PM »
easy in what aspect? Playing or scoring?
Coasting is a downhill process

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Easiest hole on the course
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2011, 12:19:59 PM »
I like Christian's basic take of "not likely to make triple on the 1st hole."  It would also go for 10 with double starts.

I would tend to put the good birdie chance somewhere between 12-15 rather than 16 or 17, which is too late to "start a comeback."  Hey, ANGC is a good example of a couple of holes earlier in the back nine having an effect on exciting matches.

Again, due to double starts and nine hole rounds, I would think a hole from 4-6 should also be an easy one and in my mind's eye, usually design with relatively easy holes at 1, 5, 10, and 15 as a goal, but I am flexible as a yoga instructor on this point.  In general, making each hole the best and most interesting it can be via routing and features ON ITS OWN yields the best course.

It also depends a lot on where the hard holes will fall as determined by routing and natural features.  I don't mind a hard following an easy or vice versa, but actually think the rythm of a course is better with medium difficulty holes interspersed.  Easy after hard usually works better than hard after easy.  No sense pumping them up and then stomping them down with a give back the stroke hole!
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Tim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Easiest hole on the course
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2011, 01:32:40 PM »
Jeff, what about pace of play, If 1 is the easiest, would you expect backups on 2/3?  How about 2 being the easiest, after 1 has been used to set the starting interval?

I always liked #1 being just a bit harder than #2 at Kemper
Coasting is a downhill process

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Easiest hole on the course
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2011, 01:36:40 PM »
Tim,

Decent points and 1 usually is a bit harder just because you want the length to avoid a backup after a short first tee shot.  That is, it should be long enough that the guy who bunts one out there will more likely hit the second quickly rather than wait until the green clears.  If either 1 or 2 is a par 5, they should be long enough to be three shotters for most, as well.

As a result, yes, the second as an easy hole isn't bad either.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Easiest hole on the course
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2011, 03:24:07 PM »
Jeff & Tim
I think you are talking about the management of the golf experience
They can start groups 15-20 minutes apart if they want = no back ups
It may be easier when designing a course for 1 person, but that is how I'd rather think of ebb and flow

My answer to your question Andy...
The easiest hole can go where the easiest hole fits
It's like asking Picasso when he should use the color blue???

Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Easiest hole on the course
« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2011, 03:26:10 PM »

The easiest hole can go where the easiest hole fits


+1
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Jason Connor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Easiest hole on the course
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2011, 04:10:25 PM »
Easiest to make par: 1st
Easiest to make birdie: 15-17.

We discovered that in good company there is no such thing as a bad golf course.  - James Dodson

Carl Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Easiest hole on the course
« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2011, 04:15:20 PM »
I'd vote to make #1 the easiest, to get you off to a good start, and #18 the next easiest, to bring you back.  As mentioned above, TOC fits the model pretty well.

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