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Will Spivey

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Re: Jonathan Cavalier Interview
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2016, 04:47:50 PM »
John:

Your preference is your preference, and I certainly respect that. We've never had the pleasure of meeting or playing together, so I can't speak to whether you'd enjoy a round with me or not, and vice versa.

I can only speak from my experience, and tell you that of the hundreds of people that I've played with over the years, I've yet to hear a complaint. In fact, I think I'm pretty good company on the golf course - but I'm biased.

I hear you - you hate golf photography and think it should be banned. I don't agree, obviously, and I think it provides me with the best means of contributing here and elsewhere.

If more people felt like you, I'm sure I'd hear about it. As I've said before, if people stopped wanting to see photos, I'd stop sharing them.

We've been over this. We know how you feel. I'm not sure what else we can say on the subject.

Jon


Jon,


Thanks for all the great pictures you post here -- when I see a thread with your name on it I ALWAYS check it out.  You've played many gems that I'm sure I'll never see in person.  I appreciate being able to live vicariously through you (sometimes!).


For the group, I can vouch for Jon.  I hosted him @ my club, and we had a wonderful time together.  He asked permission to take (and post photos) in advance, which I appreciated.  He's a hell of a player (much better than me) and a scratch photographer.  I can say that he and I played a lovely round, talked with one another the whole way around, and I hardly noticed him taking pictures.  Honestly, when I saw the great pictures he posted I wondered to myself, "when the hell did he take that picture?"  It was that unobtrusive.  Jon, we've continued the great C&C work at the club and you need to come back and see things now that everything is settling in.


I have played with both Jon and John, and can say they're both good players and good company on the course!  Keep it up.




Nigel Islam

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Re: Jonathan Cavalier Interview
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2016, 04:51:56 PM »
Without question Jon is an asset to this community. He wouldn't take pictures without the demand created by needy people who will never learn to cherish what they have seen, dream of what they will see and let go of what they never will.


JakaB,


Photo issues aside, I know both you and Jon. I think you guys should try playing a round together. I think you'd be pleasantly surprised. Having said that, the drone stuff has my inner conspiracy theorist wonder why the CIA wants aerials of Eastward Ho so badly........

John Kavanaugh

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Re: Jonathan Cavalier Interview
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2016, 04:52:21 PM »
When I went to North Berwick I didn't know it even had a redan until a great friend walked me out to the hole under the moonlight the night before we played. It reminds me of that prom night when I first saw that what defines most of our lives. Funny thing, I married that girl. Life is so much better in person.

John Kavanaugh

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Re: Jonathan Cavalier Interview
« Reply #28 on: August 24, 2016, 05:18:39 PM »
No doubt that I would like Jon. He is a great sport that doesn't take me to seriously. Keeping this on topic I wish I had never seen his picture. Me and red heads have a history on this site that I wish I wasn't aware of going in.

Stephen Northrup

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Re: Jonathan Cavalier Interview
« Reply #29 on: August 24, 2016, 10:48:31 PM »
This thread is playing out exactly as I anticipated it would from the second I spied the title.


Now I'll go read the interview.

Mark Kiely

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Re: Jonathan Cavalier Interview
« Reply #30 on: August 25, 2016, 12:36:36 AM »
I've been waiting for an interview like this since I first laid eyes on Jon's photos, curious about just who this mystical artist is. Thanks Ronald and Jon!
My golf course photo albums on Flickr: https://goo.gl/dWPF9z

Greg Gilson

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Re: Jonathan Cavalier Interview
« Reply #31 on: August 25, 2016, 12:50:41 AM »
Ron, thanks for the illuminating interview.

Jon, thanks for contributing to this DG so generously. I am glad that you found golf or it found you.

Curtis Woods

Re: Jonathan Cavalier Interview
« Reply #32 on: August 25, 2016, 02:17:18 AM »
I hosted Jon in an outing at the Longue Vue Club and Pittsburgh Field Club last year. He was a joy to partner with and I was amazed at how he photographed as he was walking down the fairway.  I seldom saw him stop to take a shot and he was never obtrusive or delayed the round one second.  Take a look at his photos of the Longue Vue Club (there's a link at the end of Ron's interview).  I was with or near him on every one of those photographs and most of the time didn't realize he was even shooting.  Count me as one of his biggest fans. His contributions to GCA are wonderful and I always look forward to his next photo tour.

Ronald Montesano

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Re: Jonathan Cavalier Interview
« Reply #33 on: August 25, 2016, 06:28:41 AM »
I'm enjoying this thread-play for fair reasons. Here are a few:


--Some may know, some may not, that I love to photograph courses even more than I love to play them (and I love to play them.)


--No one will ever confuseme with Joe Bausch or Jon, charter members of the inobtrusive  brigade. When I'm shooting, you know I'm shooting. I move quickly, but I'm often swapping lenses (short, long, wide) and taking a few extra micro-seconds to complete a hole.


--I haven't met Jon or Joe or most of you in person. GCA is one of those places where a shared interest allows acquaintances to develop from a distance, over time.


--Interviews are an interesting notion. Certain subjects take long walks to mull over their answers, and they eventually arrive, to the fortune of the reader. Others void themselves of the information instantly and spontaneously, brilliantly, to the fortune of the reader.


--It has never been mentioned or asked, but a) our inspiration for doing interviews was not the ones on this GCA site; b) our quick hits and Ran's deep inquiries are compatible creatures; c) there are others on this DB that I would like to interview, but I want to keep a balance. In fact, thanks to a few promises that turned into let-downs from outside GCA, I'm currently done with interviews (22 to date) for this year.


--The fellows that golf with me, understand my need/mission to photograph. I'm not at a course to close a deal, sign a client, anything other than shoot and play. They understand that they should go about their games and ignore me when camera is in hand. We do have plenty of time to converse and there always seems to be an interest in the images that surface. I've one particular friend who joins me on junkets, has infinite patience, and has taken to suggesting angles and elements. For that, I'm grateful.


--I've realized that there are at least two types of people who don't wish to be taken seriously. Those like me, who do so via a joke, as in "I'll be submitting these images to the US Government, in exchange for my freedom." Always elicits a startled glance, followed by a hopeful smile, and then the epiphany. There are others, who harangue and insult others, always with the escape clause "don't take me seriously" in the chamber. I don't understand the motivation of this second type of person.


--I can imagine that, long ago, perhaps even in golf, some folks questioned other folks thus: why are you writing this down? Photography, like the written word, is an advancement of the historical record. We had spoken word, then written word, then still captures, then moving captures. I'm not certain what will come next, if anything. Golf courses are grateful to have photographers offer their images to them.


--When I began shooting, I convinced myself that I needed a clean field, empty of devices and persons. As groundskeepers, golfers, and critters began appearing in images, I recognized that fairways, greens, tees, bunkers, are enhanced by presence. I continue to look for the clean field, but I also seek the pairings. We're not using film anymore, so now I shoot away.


--Post-processing is so difficult. Some images posted on this forum have been worked over diligently, to highlight colors, layers, and elements. When I shoot on a monochrome-sky day, I think about cropping sky out of the image, emphasizing the horizontal, and featuring the course more. When the sun, clouds and sky cooperate, I have options. I'm not nearly as good with Photoshop as I'd like to be. I don't have nearly the time to work at it.


--I'm grateful to Tom Doak for publishing two of my images in the CGTG series, part two. The adjective escapes me for precisely how I feel, beyond the gratitude, but it's a very positive feeling. I know 1% of what there is to know about photography, and I'm rounding up.


--I've had the time of my life at major tournaments (US Open, PGA, Walker Cup, et al.) shooting images. Professional photographers are gracious with advice and instruction, tournament directors are grateful for coverage, and every once in a long while, you capture that ever-so-perfect shot that you step back, smile, and walk toward the next one.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Jonathan Cavalier Interview
« Reply #34 on: August 25, 2016, 08:04:23 AM »
Thank you for these insights Jon and Ron.


For me this site is all the better for threads that include photos whether they be formal course photo-tours or not.


It is however, such a shame that photosgraphs are somewhat of a pain to post and that some from the past, including some excellent photo-tours by folks no longer posting herein, have disappeared from the Discussion Board.


I also find the map of photo-tours in the Best of Golf section to be very useful for both general interest and research.


Keep the photos coming!


Atb
« Last Edit: August 25, 2016, 08:23:59 AM by Thomas Dai »

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Jonathan Cavalier Interview
« Reply #35 on: August 25, 2016, 11:37:30 AM »
Thank God photos are a pain to post or we would have nothing but photos. I don't know but doesn't someone have to pay for the ability to view photos over text?


Would it be unreasonable for courses to charge golfers who use their facilities for recreation beyond golf? A fee to bring your dog, a fee to throw frisbees between shots, a fee to take pictures? It seems reasonable for someone who provides a facility to be reimbursed for its use. You pay for golf you play golf, if you want to do something more you pay more.


Seriously, would you really want the group on the adjacent fairway throwing frisbees between shots? Have we lost all sense of the beauty of golfers just being golfers. Remember going to restaurants and feeling the camaraderie of other families enjoying a meal, going to concerts as the masses in front of you listened to the music, golfing with people who are there for the golf.  Since it's not gonna stop and everyone enjoys taking and viewing pictures it may be time to put a fee on it. Let capitalism determine the true value.


note: I have been against photo taking while golfing since before the invention of the camera phone. While my protests do seem silly or harsh to some I take some solace in the belief that people have listened and modified their behavior for the better.

Michael Moore

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Re: Jonathan Cavalier Interview
« Reply #36 on: August 25, 2016, 04:12:56 PM »

He wouldn't take pictures without the demand created by needy people who will never learn to cherish what they have seen, dream of what they will see and let go of what they never will.

John -

People always react badly when I compare you to Shakespeare, who also switched effortlessly between dick jokes and theological insight. But the above tricolon is worth a thousand pictures.
Metaphor is social and shares the table with the objects it intertwines and the attitudes it reconciles. Opinion, like the Michelin inspector, dines alone. - Adam Gopnik, The Table Comes First

Jon Cavalier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Jonathan Cavalier Interview
« Reply #37 on: August 25, 2016, 05:57:28 PM »
Thank God photos are a pain to post or we would have nothing but photos. I don't know but doesn't someone have to pay for the ability to view photos over text?


Would it be unreasonable for courses to charge golfers who use their facilities for recreation beyond golf? A fee to bring your dog, a fee to throw frisbees between shots, a fee to take pictures? It seems reasonable for someone who provides a facility to be reimbursed for its use. You pay for golf you play golf, if you want to do something more you pay more.


Seriously, would you really want the group on the adjacent fairway throwing frisbees between shots? Have we lost all sense of the beauty of golfers just being golfers. Remember going to restaurants and feeling the camaraderie of other families enjoying a meal, going to concerts as the masses in front of you listened to the music, golfing with people who are there for the golf.  Since it's not gonna stop and everyone enjoys taking and viewing pictures it may be time to put a fee on it. Let capitalism determine the true value.


note: I have been against photo taking while golfing since before the invention of the camera phone. While my protests do seem silly or harsh to some I take some solace in the belief that people have listened and modified their behavior for the better.

I would gladly pay extra to bring my dog to the golf course.

Gonna have to train her to stop being a fat azz lazy cartballer though.
Golf Photos via
Twitter: @linksgems
Instagram: @linksgems

John Kavanaugh

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Re: Jonathan Cavalier Interview
« Reply #38 on: August 25, 2016, 06:19:44 PM »
Nice cameltoe.

Ulrich Mayring

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Re: Jonathan Cavalier Interview
« Reply #39 on: August 25, 2016, 07:18:17 PM »
Thank goodness golf has something called the "etiquette" and it has the status of rules. So it is perfectly clear what goes on a golf course and what doesn't. That way we don't have every self-important geezer in every club make up random rules that fit his personal comfort zone.

I can certainly feel that I abhor people telling jokes or settling bets during a round, but can only complain when they are doing it while I'm hitting. That's the beauty of the etiquette, it gives everyone a maximum of freedom, while making sure the game can be played.

Ulrich
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

Mike Sweeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Jonathan Cavalier Interview
« Reply #40 on: August 26, 2016, 05:28:42 AM »
Have we lost all sense of the beauty of golfers just being golfers. Remember going to restaurants and feeling the camaraderie of other families enjoying a meal, going to concerts as the masses in front of you listened to the music, golfing with people who are there for the golf. 


Kevin Moon Loh is a Broadway Actor and he posted this after an interruption in a performance that he was in:

"Instead, I ask you- when did we as theater people, performers and audience members become so concerned with our own experience that we lose compassion for others? The theater to me has always been a way to examine/dissect the human experience and present it back to ourselves. Today, something very real was happening in the seats and, yes, it interrupted the fantasy that was supposed to be this matinee but ultimately theater is created to bring people together, not just for entertainment, but to enhance our lives when we walk out the door again."

At this stage of life- I am not a very good golfer but I really enjoy the "Theatre" of golf and only golf has such extreme variations of "playing theaters". I have actually been disappointed that Jon never posted pictures from a GCA - CC of Scranton outing that we both attended. It would help me recreate in my mind that beautiful course from that beautiful day in yes- Scranton Pennsylvania.

"Golfers just being golfers" can have many variations including some (like I used to) that keep track of every statistic available. This golfer now appreciates the "art" of golf which includes the visual trigger of seeing a perfectly shot photograph to remind or educate me about a course or place. Similar to Ran- Jon also seems to post just the right amount of photos rather than too many from too many locations.


Keep posting Jon.

Update - I also come here for non-GCA conversations. Only on GCA can you learn that Shakespeare was a fan of "dick jokes"!!
« Last Edit: August 26, 2016, 07:02:38 AM by Mike Sweeney »
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

JLahrman

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Re: Jonathan Cavalier Interview
« Reply #41 on: August 26, 2016, 09:24:08 AM »
Update - I also come here for non-GCA conversations. Only on GCA can you learn that Shakespeare was a fan of "dick jokes"!!

Did you know that Mozart apparently kept a fart diary? I swear I am not making this up.

Ronald Montesano

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Re: Jonathan Cavalier Interview
« Reply #42 on: August 29, 2016, 06:18:31 AM »
Like Jon, I have not done a GCA photo tour in quite a while. They are not a simple finger snap, requiring formatting to a proper size to expedite loading and minimize load time in this forum. Selection of the proper images is also an important detail, as we wish to offer proper sequencing of angles for those who may never see the courses, or who intend to see the course and wish to have a preview. Finally, the entire off-site storage and linkage to thread add to the tedium. I don't store my images in the cloud, so to select, edit, resize, upload, link, and preview is an affair of some hours. Add in the necessary verbiage and we're talking about the amount of work that should demand top dollar from a major golf publication.


I suspect that it would not be too much work to initiate a parallel thread entitled non-photo tour of ... for the digital Mennonites who prefer to not look at images of a course. There is no guarantee (and much doubt) that folks will post identically to both threads.

My boys' varsity season begins soon, running until Columbus Day. After that, I've some free time in the afternoons and evenings, and might be enticed to create a PT. I've images of a fair number of courses that I've recently shot, and would consider an image thread if the demand were there. I would have to have the proper support from those clubs, with the exception of the municipal ones, to proceed. Listed are the courses that are not in the Courses By Country section and have not been threaded to the best of my knowledge. Send me a PM/DM here if you have a vote.


Providence Area: Triggs Memorial, Wannamoisett, Wanumetonomy, Metacomet
Southern Connecticut: Black Hall
Cleveland: Mayfield, Shaker Heights, Sand Ridge
Carolinas: Caledonia, Dormie
Florida: Innisbrook Copperhead
West Coast: Pasatiempo, Bandon Preserve, Bandon Crossings
Texas: Butterfield Trail
« Last Edit: August 29, 2016, 06:20:59 AM by Ronald Montesano »
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Scott Weersing

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Jonathan Cavalier Interview
« Reply #43 on: August 29, 2016, 08:06:02 AM »
Other questions for Jon:


What is your home course?


What course have you not photographed that you would like to?


What is a better time to tee off for photos, 630 am or 430 pm?

Jon Cavalier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Jonathan Cavalier Interview
« Reply #44 on: September 05, 2016, 02:07:09 AM »
First off, thanks again to Ron for asking me to do this little interview. I certainly didn't think it would generate this much discussion (although parts of it certainly come as no surprise).

To all of you who reached out privately with kind words, thanks. And to those of you who reached out to ask photography questions, I hope I answered your questions and provided some help.

To Peter, Joel, David Davis, Jim, Nigel, Mark, Greg and Thomas - thanks for the complementary remarks about the photos and tours I've posted in the past. I'm quite glad you enjoyed them. I've met some of you already, and I hope I have a chance to meet the rest of you in the future.

To Curtis: it was a discussion on a boat of photos and courses that got us talking in the first place, and which led to us playing together in Pittsburgh at your kind invitation. I'm so glad that you enjoyed the Longue Vue tour, and I hope it provided you with a few little memories of what I remember as a wonderful weekend of golf.

Mike: shoot me a PM with your email address when you get a chance and I'll send you some photos of CC Scranton if you'd like. We didn't have the best day for picture taking, but we certainly had a great day for golf. I enjoyed meeting you that day.

Will: thanks for having me down and spending the day with me at Old Town. Loved the company and the golf course - it's still one of my favorite courses, and one of my favorite tours. Such a lovely place.

David: Hopefully I can get over to your side of the Atlantic in the near future and take you up on that challenge - I would certainly love to try.

Terry: Thanks for the words of support. I'm glad the guys at Old Elm found my photos useful. Hope to see you next time I'm in Chicago, which may be sooner than later.

Eric: I don't run a blog of my own, but I do post photos on Twitter and Instagram (plug: @LinksGems) including shots of Hollywood, Merion and Stonewall (with the Mid-Am starting this week, I expect to be putting up a lot of Stonewall pics). Maybe I'll line up one or more of those courses for a full tour here.

Lastly, with the return of Pat Mucci (and hopefully a concurrent return to more interesting threads), I'm planning to do a photo tour or two in the coming days. As I said above, it's the best way I know how to contribute to our little forum, and so long as you guys want to see them, I'll keep putting them up (John - I'll make sure to make the thread title clear, lest you stumble upon some photos in my photo tours by accident).

In the meantime, thanks to all who chimed in, and to everyone (including John) who make our boards an interesting place to discuss our game.

- Jon Cavalier
Golf Photos via
Twitter: @linksgems
Instagram: @linksgems

Josh Bills

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Re: Jonathan Cavalier Interview
« Reply #45 on: September 05, 2016, 04:51:45 PM »
Great interview with Jon.  His photos are amazing and am glad he shares them. 


I was one of the fortunate ones to play with John K in St. Andrews.  I enjoyed all my rounds with him and it appears he didn't notice my taking photos while playing with him on the TOC, Jubilee and North Berwick.  I'm sure John is in quite a few of those photos, but I won't be sharing them with anyone other than John if he wants them, sorry.  I love looking at the photos of the courses and once Eric Smith gets to his Scotland portion of his epic journey, I will contribute a few.  I thoroughly enjoyed all my rounds in Scotland and wanted to have some photos to hopefully paint someday, but not at the expense of enjoying the courses or offending my fellow golfers.  Who knows if I will ever get back and I really didn't want my photos to overshadow my enjoyment of the courses. 


I probably took at least 1,000 photos in Scotland, of course some were when I played as a single at Lundin and Gullanes Nos. 2 and 3 or just with Tim Gallant at Kilspindie, and the light and course were just amazing, or just enjoying a morning stroll around St. Andrews.


I enjoy Jon's photos and am glad he contributes them.  I also enjoyed meeting and playing golf with John K and understand his position on photographs and hope I didn't offend or lessen his experience with any I took. 

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