[Jeff Bergeron]

Watching the replay of the 2008 Ryder Cup. Is that really eight years ago?


This 13th hole is awful. Candidly the entire course gives me no message at all. Jack's worst?

[Nigel Islam]

I agree the rocks don't do it any justice, but it's actually a pretty cool hole at a good place in the round for a shorter par 4. (Between the tough 12th and 13-17 stretch) It's not a great hole for the pros, but for normal golfers it is a hole where you can make 3 or 6. The back nine has a pretty nice flow to it.

[Josh Stevens]

The ugliest hole at Valhalla is quite an achievement.

But green is bad, but I think it has some merit as a concept if you look past the rocks as its only a SW in.  But the fairway bunkers are horrific

[Josh Tarble]

It's certainly not the prettiest place (but what from Kentucky is ) but I actually think Valhalla is a pretty solid place.  The routing is nice, quite walkable, especially compared to some of Nicklaus's other efforts.  The flow of holes makes for a fun match and there are plenty of half-par holes out there.  I think it's a victim of it's stylistic time.

[Ryan Hillenbrand]

I agree the rocks don't do it any justice, but it's actually a pretty cool hole at a good place in the round for a shorter par 4. (Between the tough 12th and 13-17 stretch) It's not a great hole for the pros, but for normal golfers it is a hole where you can make 3 or 6. The back nine has a pretty nice flow to it.

I agree with Nigel here that it plays a lot better than it looks on TV. I was watching the re-run too and I noticed they had a high camera angle that made it look different and easier from actually playing the shot. Its quite intimidating.  You also don't notice the rocks as much. Its a bit like the 17th at Sawgrass that appeared in person a lot different than on TV, IMO

[Mark Pritchett]

I have not played Valhalla, however I hear mostly positive things about it from those that have been there.

[Jason Thurman]

1 and 7 at Valhalla are much uglier. Other thoughts:


13 isn't my taste aesthetically, and it won't be the taste of the minimalists, but it must surely be the second most photographed hole on the course after 18. I've walked or played Valhalla a half-dozen times with a dozen people, and I think the only person who hasn't fawned over the beauty of 13 is a good friend of mine who happens to be a member.


Josh is just trying to front because he knows my hometown compatriot Muhammad Ali and I are both prettier than he is.


I don't love 13. It's arguably my least favorite hole on the course. But as a 9 handicap, it certainly captures my full attention on every shot while also giving me a pretty good chance for birdie, and that must be worth something.


I love the ebb-and-flow of Valhalla, and I still don't think it's an accident that a course with that much risk/reward at play has produced great tournaments every time it has hosted an event of any significance. Shot for shot, it has about as much variety as anything I've played.


Aesthetically, it's about as dated as it gets. They could replace the bentgrass with burnt orange shag carpet and it wouldn't feel any less modern. I'd love to see them pursue a renovation to update the look. Chip and JoJo would be my first choice to develop the master plan. There's nothing out there a little shiplap wouldn't fix.


I'd make fun of you guys for watching an 8 year old golf tournament with an outcome that everyone already remembers, but I watched Bill Russell's Celtics play the Cincinnati Royals a couple weeks ago, so who am I to judge? We all have our issues.


I suspect JoJo would be Schulz's type.

[Nigel Islam]

Josh is just trying to front because he knows my hometown compatriot Muhammad Ali and I are both prettier than he is.

You ain't that pretty

[Josh Stevens]

I concur with Jason, are we caught in the aesthetics?  It is so 80's it is eye watering,  but looking beyond that, is it a bad hole?   Its a bit of a 17th Sawgrass sort of hole - in theory its horrendous, but sort of works as long as there is only one of them.  Certainly i thin this sort of hole works better at 13 that it does at 17. 


Remove the ghastly rocks and the more ghastly bunkers, and try to make it look a bit less jarring to the eye and maybe its not a bad hole

[Tim Gavrich]

Interesting to see the responses. When I was really little I had a page-a-day calendar where each day was a different golf hole from around the world. #13 at Valhalla sticks out more than most in my memory; I have to believe it was influential in the development of my own interest in golf design.

[Jeff Shelman]

While I will admit that the hole doesn't maybe fit with the rest of the course, I don't have a huge issue with the hole.

Like many big golf courses, Valhalla is a place where you have to hit a lot of long shots.

On 13 (like to some extent on 4), you have to hit precise shots. How far are you going to hit it off the tee? What club? And then are you going to be able to execute a short shot to a green with mucho death around it?

I wouldn't want a course filled with holes like 13, but I like it as a nice change of pace.

[Rees Milikin]

Do the aesthetics take away from the strategy? 

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