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Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Dan Kelly,

What's wrong with playing a hole that's 440 one day and 390 another ?
Same green, same bunkers, but a different tee, albeit ONLY ONE TEE.

One hundred-and-some posts into this thread ... and NOW I find out that you're talking about having multiple tees, but using only one each day?

There's NOTHING wrong with that! That sounds like fun. Re-read your initial post, and you'll understand why I'm misunderstood your intent all along.

You could search my prior posts. A couple of years ago -- I believe it was after Rick Shefchik and I played our nearly annual season-ending dawn-to-dusk marathon -- I urged everyone to play his own course from the forward tees -- to see it anew.

If I remember right, I got no takers.

Dan
« Last Edit: December 01, 2011, 08:41:04 PM by Dan Kelly »
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Dan Kelly,

What's wrong with playing a hole that's 440 one day and 390 another ?
Same green, same bunkers, but a different tee, albeit ONLY ONE TEE.

One hundred-and-some posts into this thread ... and NOW I find out that you're talking about having multiple tees, but using only one each day?

There's NOTHING wrong with that! That sounds like fun. Re-read your initial post, and you'll understand why I'm misunderstood your intent all along.

You could search my prior posts. A couple of years ago -- I believe it was after Rick Shefchik and I played our nearly annual season-ending dawn-to-dusk marathon -- I urged everyone to play his course from the forward tees -- to see it anew.

If I remember right, I got no takers.

Dan

Sage Valley does it this way-one tee of the day.
a little funny because it's got the usual 6 sets
(although not as funny as the green jackets-green really? ::) ::) :o ;D)
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Patrick_Mucci

Dan Kelly,

What's wrong with playing a hole that's 440 one day and 390 another ?
Same green, same bunkers, but a different tee, albeit ONLY ONE TEE.

One hundred-and-some posts into this thread ... and NOW I find out that you're talking about having multiple tees, but using only one each day?

There's NOTHING wrong with that! That sounds like fun. Re-read your initial post, and you'll understand why I'm misunderstood your intent all along.

Dan, I reread my initial post and all the posts thereafter.
For you, I think a refresher course in reading comprehension is long overdue.
Didn't it occur to you that after the first week, that if the tees remained static/stationary, there'd be nothing left of them. ? ? ?

So that you're not too confused, if I had my druthers, I'd have one footpad, one tee per hole that could accomodate elasticity in terms of distance.

In terms of the conversion process, my thread was directed more toward new courses, designed to play from one set of tees, rather than taking existing courses and reworking them, although, that too could be accomodated.


You could search my prior posts. A couple of years ago -- I believe it was after Rick Shefchik and I played our nearly annual season-ending dawn-to-dusk marathon -- I urged everyone to play his own course from the forward tees -- to see it anew.

If I remember right, I got no takers.


I think the concept of moving up is at odds with the golfer's ego.

Years ago, Peter Kostis told me to move up to the white tees to get into the habit of scoring well.
I thought about it, but didn't do it because I felt that when I moved back, I'd be out of my newly acquired comfort zone.


Tim Bert

  • Karma: +0/-0

Realistically, to what degree does the angle of attack vary from multiple/various tees.

The only course I can recall, off the top of my head, where the angle of attack on the tee shot is substantially different is on # 16 at NGLA and # 2 at Sand Hills.  # 17 at Sand Hills if you count the abandoned 17th tee up on the hill.

At the great majority of courses I've experienced, the angles of attack differ minimally from the various sets of tees.
In fact, at most courses, multiple tees reside within the same platform or foot pad of the tee.[/color]

While I could play Kingsley Club from any of the existing sets of tees and be satisfied until the end of time, one of the things I cherish there is how different so many of the holes play from many of the various tees.  It is a bonus that each hole can be so enjoyable from various tees.  I have played almost every hole from every tee (back to the tips and all the way up to the fronts).  I wouldn't ever want to give up those options. 

By my estimation, the following holes on the course can be played from a significantly different angle (not just distance) depending upon the tee selected: 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14.  Thats more than half the holes on the course.  The other might have a slightly different angle but distance is the primary differentiator. 

As an infrequent visitor to a club, I wouldn't mind if they had one set of tees and that was where I was asked to play.  As a member that plays the course repeatedly, I would appreciate the variety and would always rather have numerous options.

Patrick_Mucci

Tim Bert,

Do you post every score you shoot ?

Tim Bert

  • Karma: +0/-0
I don't post scores when I play a convoluted set of tees.  I play several rounds from a single set of tees; I just enjoy mixing it up.  While I do carry a handicap I don't have much use for it. It is really more informational for my interest than anything else. I don't think I have played in a competition that required a handicap in two years. The bulk of my "contests" are with good friends that know my game well and the stakes are generally low enough that even if someone doesn't know my game well enough they don't care.  I'd guess that I played as many rounds there year where I handicapped our game by adjusting between tees (or clubs as several people took pride in beating me with hickories this year) as opposed to giving strokes. It is a game in itself coming up with a Non traditional handicap system that yields a close match with an interesting result.

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Dan, I reread my initial post and all the posts thereafter.
For you, I think a refresher course in reading comprehension is long overdue.


With all due respect, I sincerely doubt it.

I didn't know you were a fan of 50-yard-long tee pads.

Live and learn!
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Patrick_Mucci

Dan, I reread my initial post and all the posts thereafter.
For you, I think a refresher course in reading comprehension is long overdue.


With all due respect, I sincerely doubt it.

I didn't know you were a fan of 50-yard-long tee pads.

Live and learn!
Dan,

Think about what you just posted !

If you created a course that was going to accommodate play from but one set of tees, how could you have anything but expansive tees ?

I understand they give discounts when you take refresher courses in reading comprehension and logic ;D


Patrick_Mucci

Tim,

If you're playing with three other friends, and you're playing matches against one another, who determines which tees you'll play from on each hole ?

Tim Bert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Tim,

If you're playing with three other friends, and you're playing matches against one another, who determines which tees you'll play from on each hole ?

I have two really good friends with whom I've been playing matches for years.  Our abilities come and go and from one year to the next (or sometimes from one day to the next) any one of the three may be the better player. I've always pretty much played the two of them straight up even when our handicaps may be 4 or 5 strokes apart as an extreme (usually within 3).  We know one another well enough that none of us would ever feel very good about beating the others with strokes. We play to beat one another. The games are primarily friendly but we all want to win. When I'm playing with those two we will usually play the same tee as one another on each hole. We might determine the tees for each hole the night before if we plan to mix and match. Or we might let the winner of each hole choose the next tee. Or commonly we may just play one set of tees.  We are all good with the variety.

Here's a few examples of some of the other matches I played this year with people whose games I didn't know as well. The fun here was devising games that would seem to be evenly matched without giving strokes. If they ended up being lopsided the stakes were low enough that it didn't matter. If it ended up being a closely contested match (and many of these worked surprisingly well) then the match was a bonus in addition to the course, the walk, and the friendship.

I played one match as a 13 index against a 3 (or something like that) where I played the front tees and he played the tips. Or at least that was the plan until he injured himself on the 1st hole and walked off the course 5 holes later (victory!!!)

We salvaged that round by having two of us play from the front tees and use our better ball against a +1 playing from the tips.  We lost that one!

I played a match against a mid single digit handicap that also plays with hickories and carries a 12 handicap as a hickory player. We played a more forward set of tees than usual but not the fronts. I think I lost that one!

In the same round, a buddy and I teamed up against said hickory player and a hickory playing partner in a four ball. We all played the same tees because their hickory indexes were roughly equivalent to our regular indexes ( well, ok, one of the guys has since been ID'd as a hickory hustler). We lost that one but it was an epic 23 holer that saw us with a substantial lead after the first nine.

I played a low handicapper in a match where every time I lost a hole I moved up a set of tees and every time I won a hole I moved back a set of tees (on the consition that I'd never play from a set behind him). I may have lost that one too although I don't have the card handy and I am pretty sure it came down to the last hole.

OK I am going to stop providing examples now as I am recalling just how many matches I lost this year. Now you know why I like to play for low stakes!

Getting back to the topic at hand, I enjoy a little extra tee variety because I lack any semblance of a game and I might just get bored playing the same set of tees over and over.  ;D

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Dan,

You aren't the only one who understood it that way either.  I am completely surprised by Pats seemingly flip flopping as well.  The way he presented this was how in the old days, you went two club lengths from the previous green and teed off.  That pretty much suggests static tees....not what he's proposing now which is to only use one of the many tee sites each day...which I don't have a problem with.  If the tee used each day is varied, then that's all I advocated in the 1st place....

You got a new name Pat.  Pat "The Flipper" Mucci!!  ;D

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
I am completely surprised by Pats seemingly flip flopping as well.  The way he presented this was how in the old days, you went two club lengths from the previous green and teed off.  That pretty much suggests static tees....not what he's proposing now which is to only use one of the many tee sites each day...which I don't have a problem with.  If the tee used each day is varied, then that's all I advocated in the 1st place....

You got a new name Pat.  Pat "The Flipper" Mucci!!  ;D

Or, for short, "Mitt."

Mitt Mucci.

(Best political ad of the season, to date: http://mittvmitt.com.)
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Peter Pallotta

Pat doesn't flip flop! He simply expands endlessly the parameters of the debate, and this arbitrarily and at the service only of self interest properly understood, which self interest is to prove that you are wrong and that he is RIGHT!

If you guys can't understand that you must be morons and cretins lacking in all reading and comprehension skills. And besides which, PLEASE don't offer your opinions unless you've played Seminole, NGLA, and Pine Valley -- several times, in changing wind conditions and times of year, from different sets of tees!  

Again, read Pat's initial post and THINK before you offer a response.

He may be a superior golfer and human being, but you can't expect him to do EVERYTHING for you.

Thank you.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2011, 11:33:12 AM by PPallotta »

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Dan,

You aren't the only one who understood it that way either.  I am completely surprised by Pats seemingly flip flopping as well.  The way he presented this was how in the old days, you went two club lengths from the previous green and teed off.  That pretty much suggests static tees....not what he's proposing now which is to only use one of the many tee sites each day...which I don't have a problem with.  If the tee used each day is varied, then that's all I advocated in the 1st place....

You got a new name Pat.  Pat "The Flipper" Mucci!!  ;D

Pat mentioned large tees. You guys just missed it. Also, as I recall, he also suggest the possibility of very wide tees.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
I am completely surprised by Pats seemingly flip flopping as well.  The way he presented this was how in the old days, you went two club lengths from the previous green and teed off.  That pretty much suggests static tees....not what he's proposing now which is to only use one of the many tee sites each day...which I don't have a problem with.  If the tee used each day is varied, then that's all I advocated in the 1st place....

You got a new name Pat.  Pat "The Flipper" Mucci!!  ;D

Or, for short, "Mitt."

Mitt Mucci.

(Best political ad of the season, to date: http://mittvmitt.com.)

Mitt Mucci!!!   I love it!!   ;D  ;D

it would also seem Mitt ain't the only flopper!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWKTOCP45zY&feature=player_embedded
« Last Edit: December 02, 2011, 11:52:29 AM by Kalen Braley »

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
...

I would have little fun playing a 7500 yard course once, much less multiple times.


 If the golden age architects had gone ahead and dropped 6 holes from the courses, but kept them full length, would you not have fun playing those courses, because the holes are too long?


That might be the most thought provoking remark I've read in a long time.
Plenty of turn of the century courses had holes consolidated into one longer hole.
I can think of a few I'd like to simply blow a 3 wood over on the way to something better.

I guess no one wants to answer. Maybe we should start a thread on would you enjoy this hole if the green was eliminated and you just continued to the next green.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Patrick_Mucci

Dan,

You aren't the only one who understood it that way either.  I am completely surprised by Pats seemingly flip flopping as well.  The way he presented this was how in the old days, you went two club lengths from the previous green and teed off.  That pretty much suggests static tees....not what he's proposing now which is to only use one of the many tee sites each day...which I don't have a problem with.  If the tee used each day is varied, then that's all I advocated in the 1st place....

You got a new name Pat.  Pat "The Flipper" Mucci!!  ;D

Kalen, what you failed was understand was the progression or evolution of the "teeing ground/area.
That golf was played for about a CENTURY from a location barely 4 feet from the hole/cup on the previous hole before the teeing ground/area was moved the enormous distance of barely another 4 feet.  Then, in a quantum leap, tees were removed from the previous green to a more remote location.  That remained the norm until more recently when there was an explosion in the number of tee locations.

The history was intended to educate and to put into perspective how the game was originally played in terms of tees, and how it's so dramatically different today.
It was meant to illustrate the minute incremental change, over the lengthy period of a century,  from one club length to two club lengths, alongside the explosion of multiple tee locations within A relatively short period of time.

My mistake was that I overestimated the intelligence of people like yourself.

I was pretty clear in referring to one "set" of tees, not one fixed teeing location.
Again, my apologies for overestimating your intelligence along with Dan's and Peter's
I should have known better based on the history of your posts ;D

« Last Edit: December 03, 2011, 10:50:56 AM by Patrick_Mucci »

Joe Leenheer

  • Karma: +0/-0
One tee, random bunkering, handicaps....

and how about ONE CLUB! 

Never let the quality of your game determine the quality of your time spent playing it.

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