Olympic course - what should the brief be ?

[Niall C]

I'll confess straight away and say I'm against golf being in the Olympics for several reasons but mainly because I feel that letting the Olympics anywhere near golf is like the Rolling Stones getting the Hells Angels to marshall one of there gigs. Somewhere down the line you know you're going to regret it.

However a comment from Mr Doak on another Olympic course thread made me think the real interesting point here is not what specific features you might want to incorporate in a course, or who might be playing but more fundamentally what do you (the imaginary client) want to achieve from the construction of this course ? What exactly would your brief to your architect be ?

Are you trying to identify the best golfer a la The Open or the US Open and therefore design the course accordingly ? Or are you try to create excitement with lots of birdies ? (ever watch the syncranised swimming ?) Or do you try to design something that "makes a statement" about Brazil or the Olympic movement (no, sorry, no idea what I mean by that but perhaps someone can help) ? Or just maybe you want to build something to show how eco-friendly Brazil is (deforestation anyone ?).

So, what exactly would your brief be to Mr Doak or Mr Nicklaus or whoever ?

Niall

[Peter Pallotta]

Niall - interesting question.  Since I'm of the mind that Brazil is not overly/primarily concerned with proving itself on the world stage, I think the focus is on "self identity" and "self understanding".  So I think that the brief would centre around how best and how clearly to support the process of Brazilians sending a message to themselves about themselves.  And that message is one of a 'new Brazil' -- a Brazil of opportunities and public spaces that are open to all Brazilians, a forward-looking Brazil, full of optimism and primed for success in the new global economy, a green and environmentally friendly and high tech one.  (I believe Brazil may be a world leading producer of ethanol, for example; and its telecom/IT industry is very large).  So: give me a golf course that is environmentally friendly and open to all.  (Hint: The Old Course, with indigenous South American grasses replacing fescue).

Peter

[Kalen Braley]

Niall,

I ask this question seriously....exactly what could be "regretful" by the Olympics including golf?

I can see how it would be uninteresting, or the format be non-compelling, or the best players in the world not show up for it...but I'm not seeing who would "regret" putting it in the games?

P.S.  I would rather watch golf over weight-lifting, rowing, kayaking, badminton, etc, and 1/2 of the other mundane sports currently included in the summer games.

[BCrosby]

I'm not sure I get the fuss about a new Olympic course. Shouldn't it be as good as it can be? As is the case with any other new course? Is it more complicated than that?

We can argue until the cows come home about what "good as it can be" means. But that's not an argument unique to the new Olympic course. That's an argument about any new course. Certainly this course will have a high profile, but the architectural issues won't be unique.

Bob

[Niall C]

Gents

Apologies, my original post overdid the cynicism (again, not convinced I've spelt that correctly) but behind all that was a serious question and maybe one that we don't think about when dissecting a gca's work, and that is what was he/she actually charged with doing. On the other thread about what features Adrian gave a description of what seemed to me to be a typical PGA layout/set-up.

Now if the PGA was in charge you would imagine they would want a fairly typical tour type set-up/course designed to meet there criteria. However it isn't the PGA so the question was what you would want if you were the client, and why ?

Kalen,

The concept of the Olympics is a noble idea and for very many sports its the very pinnacle of achievement in their particular sport. Golf already has its pinnacles and frankly the Olympic golf tournament would only at best be the equivalent of one of those "World" events that has sprung up in golf in the last few years. Easy money, and not much competition. To my way of thinking that sells the idea of the Olympics short.

However thats not my main concern, my main concern is what the Olympics would do to golf. Only this week Havalange, a long standing member of the IOC committee was forced to resign because he was found to be corrupt. I doubt that is a shock to anyone as their has been plenty of stories for decades about corruption in the IOC. I would rather leave golf in the hands of those that care rather than a bunch of freeloaders or worse.

Bob

Define "good".

Niall

[David Nelson]

Make it exciting! Make every kid who watches it want to pick up golf clubs and play the game!

[BCrosby]

Niall -

My point about 'good' was not about how to define the term. It was rather that the challenge of building a 'good' Olympic course should not be seen as different in any material way from the challenge of building any 'good' course.

Bob

[Niall C]

Bob

To an extent I don't disagree however I could argue that Royal Troon is good and that Pitlochry is good but the first is a challenge to the best players in the world while the other is just plain fun to everyday golfers. Thats where I think you have to give the gca a stear or alternatively be prepared to accept his idea of "good".

Niall

[Bill Brightly]

This is a pretty interesting question, because in the short run, the architect will be building a playing field for the best golfers in the world. Assuming you don't want a birdie-fest like the PGA event at Old White, where the pros decimate a quaint, classic design, you probably need a set of Tiger tees. I don't think it would be good publicity for the new course to be labeled as "too easy" less its future viability suffer. I wonder how Tom Doak will approach this, or he even agrees with it.

[Niall C]

Bill

Didn't see the golf at Old White but from what you say I assume that the pro's shot pretty low scores relative to par. I think there's a couple of ways of looking at this, you could move the tees back, or you could make some of the par5's par 4's and par4's par 3's etc or alternatively you could decide that either you wanted them to shoot low or didn't give a stuff what score they shot relative to par.

I'm not a huge fan of Castle Stuart (I do actually like it but its a long way short of great in my book) but I do tip my hat to Mark Parsinen for sticking to his guns and saying let the pro's shoot as low as they want, I'm not changing my course. By doing so he didn't fall in to the trap of designing for a bunch of guys who showed up once in a blue moon.

Niall