[Randy Thompson]

Can anyone verify that the Jack and Greg officially included in there presentation these women? The rio web site that listed the winners does not mention a joint venture ofr either of the two candidates. I know there was talk of such joint ventures before the actual RFP were released but like I said nothing in the official announcement.

[David Kelly]

Enviromental regs say you can´t get near 30 meters of exsisting water and if its running water ie. a spring...fifty meters. This includes draiange swales that sometimes may have water running in them. Native trees are also a no-no but the property doesn´t seem to have any of those of any significance.

Knowing the history of Olympics I would suspect that these regulations could be temporarily lifted if the powers-that-be thought they were a hindrance.

[Jud_T]

FYI for those all male contingents, just a heads up that at this late date you can still one-up the politically correct squads by adding your own female talent:

http://www.blaironeal.com/

[Randy Thompson]

Enviromental regs say you can´t get near 30 meters of exsisting water and if its running water ie. a spring...fifty meters. This includes draiange swales that sometimes may have water running in them. Native trees are also a no-no but the property doesn´t seem to have any of those of any significance.

Knowing the history of Olympics I would suspect that these regulations could be temporarily lifted if the powers-that-be thought they were a hindrance.

I think the opposite, they will have all eyes on them and will need to complete to the letter!

[Howard Riefs]

Norman discloses some details on the pitch process and timing:

Come Monday, Norman said, the eight finalists will receive an informational packet outlining the specs for the job. They’ll each get to visit the proposed site near Rio de Janeiro once before preparing their pitches, which will include routing and schematic plans for the golf course. The finalists will submit their plans before giving a 45-minute presentation, probably at the end of January, beginning of February, Norman said.

“So you’ve got seven weeks to do this,” Norman said. “The timeframe we’ve worked on this, compared to most other projects, this is like a nanosecond.”

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/randall-mell/norman-wants-to-design-olympic-course/

[Stuart Goldstein]

Clearly adding Webb to the Thompson team is a PR and political move, unless her design expertise is greater than i know.

[Jason Connor]

Tom, I believe that the winning pitch (hopefully yours) will be the one that has a golf hole modelled  on the Rio 2016 logo.  The logo has a fairway, a water hazard, a bunker and plently of beautiful sweeping curves just waiting to be turned into a golf hole.  chuck in some geenside bunkers modelled on the olympic rings and and olympic torch tee markers and the job is yours, I believe.

That's brilliant!

To completely make it a Mickey Mouse golf hole it could even be a short 2-shotter and the vertical piece in the "R" could be a wall prohibiting corner cutting.

[David Kelly]

Tom, I believe that the winning pitch (hopefully yours) will be the one that has a golf hole modelled  on the Rio 2016 logo.  The logo has a fairway, a water hazard, a bunker and plently of beautiful sweeping curves just waiting to be turned into a golf hole.  chuck in some geenside bunkers modelled on the olympic rings and and olympic torch tee markers and the job is yours, I believe.

That's brilliant!

To completely make it a Mickey Mouse golf hole it could even be a short 2-shotter and the vertical piece in the "R" could be a wall prohibiting corner cutting.

Is it too late to enter that hole in the Schmidt & Curley Chinese Golf Hole contest?

[RJ_Daley]

Tom, I believe that the winning pitch (hopefully yours) will be the one that has a golf hole modelled  on the Rio 2016 logo.  The logo has a fairway, a water hazard, a bunker and plently of beautiful sweeping curves just waiting to be turned into a golf hole.  chuck in some geenside bunkers modelled on the olympic rings and and olympic torch tee markers and the job is yours, I believe.

That's brilliant!



To completely make it a Mickey Mouse golf hole it could even be a short 2-shotter and the vertical piece in the "R" could be a wall prohibiting corner cutting.

Is it too late to enter that hole in the Schmidt & Curley Chinese Golf Hole contest?

Yup, I see it as well.   The right side tip of the blue underlined RIO is the tee where you can have the torches for tee blocks as mentioned, and the underlined is a water hazard creek.  The I and O are  ;Da linear rough grass mound for the I , and the O is a nob or nose in the foregreen pr a grass depression.  The green part of the R is the rough slope up to a perched green, and the dot of the I is a bunker.  The thing sets up as a NADER, and plays about 235-240.  Let the games begin!

 

[michael damico]

Norman discloses some details on the pitch process and timing:

Come Monday, Norman said, the eight finalists will receive an informational packet outlining the specs for the job. They’ll each get to visit the proposed site near Rio de Janeiro once before preparing their pitches, which will include routing and schematic plans for the golf course. The finalists will submit their plans before giving a 45-minute presentation, probably at the end of January, beginning of February, Norman said.

“So you’ve got seven weeks to do this,” Norman said. “The timeframe we’ve worked on this, compared to most other projects, this is like a nanosecond.”

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/randall-mell/norman-wants-to-design-olympic-course/

7 weeks to submit a routing and have it presentation-worthy? How long does Norman usually take to submit a proposed routing?

[Jud_T]

It seems to me that without being privy to the inner workings of the committee and what criteria are driving the current decision that it's really anyone's ballgame and more of a digital event.  So I would think that while the odds would still probably favor Jack that someone like Tom or Gil might have a better chance than one would normally think in this type of competition as you simply never know what direction they may be moving in or what bit of the presentation might really strike a chord with the committee.

[Don_Mahaffey]

Norman discloses some details on the pitch process and timing:

Come Monday, Norman said, the eight finalists will receive an informational packet outlining the specs for the job. They’ll each get to visit the proposed site near Rio de Janeiro once before preparing their pitches, which will include routing and schematic plans for the golf course. The finalists will submit their plans before giving a 45-minute presentation, probably at the end of January, beginning of February, Norman said.

“So you’ve got seven weeks to do this,” Norman said. “The timeframe we’ve worked on this, compared to most other projects, this is like a nanosecond.”

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/randall-mell/norman-wants-to-design-olympic-course/

7 weeks to submit a routing and have it presentation-worthy? How long does Norman usually take to submit a proposed routing?

This design has been in the news for sometime now and the land has been no secret. Anyone who is just starting on their proposal is probably behind the group.

[John Chilver-Stainer]

Greg Norman already looking for excuses??

It's extraordinary how many of the "thread bearers" here have conceded the competition will be probably won by the "biggest name".
Has Corporate America conditioned them to accept a competition is just a show of asset strength rather than based on the merits of the proposition.   

I'm not surprised at Tom Doak's frustration.

I for one hope the golf course that get's chosen will provide a land mark golf course in the style of a scottish links, which is ecologically sustainable and not just another lush green, white sand and lake course - only to be played on by corporates.   

[Melvyn Morrow]

Well said John

Melvyn

[RJ_Daley]

With an architect who operates as a design-build like Tom, and Gil (as far as I know) who has their main construction personnel, in-house; are they at an advantage or disadvantage in this fishbowl, high profile bidding arena, including the known historical challenges that the Olympics have had with bidding scandal, and then factor in the local perhaps- unique social and cultural ways of doing things in a country like Brazil?

I can't think of a better way to set back a GCA firm without the huge corporate footprint, and international clout.  Is the prestige of being the GCA of an Olympics course in Rio, worth the risk of all the things that could go very wrong due to influences and circumstances related to Oly politics and finances well beyond the control of the GCA? 

For Tom and Gil, I think it is one thing to partner and work with a developer of known merit and class like Keiser, Parsinien, Roberston, and individuals of specific achievement.  But, what can only be characterized as the free-for-all historical aspect of the Olys, GCAs of craft or boutique style and nature seem the wrong fit.  I think that the risk reward is skewed for designers like Gil and Tom.  If they are able to operate unfettered and put their best design talents forward; how many viewers of the new Oly golf will note the difference the architectural design makes?  I personally don't think 2% of those viewing the Oly competition in those two weeks would be able to tell the difference in the quality and style of golf played that the architecture makes, and they wouldn't even note the difference between the Pres Cup at Royal Melbourne and the PGA at AAC. 

People will be switching viewing of the Olys from Greco-Roman Wrestling or the Javelin throw, or Women's gymnastics, to the coverage of golf.  The audience isn't keen enough just on the golf to make that much difference in the reputation of work of the golf architect for the Oly venue, IMHO.

[John Chilver-Stainer]

RJ, the risk must be worth taking considering the name of the golf course architect will have his name in every golf magazine in the world, and probably mentioned on the commentary – that must be worth a few hundred thousand in free advertising alone.

All these architects will have their own shapers and supervisers, so as long as the machines are working the earth works should be ok. However if they have to use local irrigation and seeding contractors then you’re right - there could be some sleepless nights.

I agree that a Tom Doak or a Gil Hansen with their hands-on approach will be much better equipped to react to any adversities than a heavy corporate machine with highly paid name-sakes and marketeers

Will you be one of the 98% watching prime time womens basket ball?

[Randy Thompson]

I think Tom has an advantage, yes everyone has their shapers and supervisiors but the bigger firms have supervisors that supervise an outside contractor and I see Tom´s crew´s as in house contractors which is what seems to work best in South America. I have been here over twenty years now and during that time frame I would guess there have been well over 100 courses built and out of that 100 around five have had general contactors, three in Chile and two in Argentina and none in Brazil. Nicklaus has a general contractor in Argentina but that surely will increases the overall cost of the finished project and as stated previously in some of the threads it doesn´t make sence to create a course over the five million dollar mark. I think the idea of the present stage as a competition will also favor Tom´s team. When it comes to lobbying and internal political connections, there are three strong groups, Nicklaus, RJT II and once againTom. I stated months ago in another thread, I have faith they will come to the correct conclusions and contract the highest qualified firm, that will produce the best course at a reasonable price. I still stand by that but it will be, a very close vote and a tough battle. We don´t actually know of all the committees involved but the knife will have to put into the hands of one particular group to cut the cake and it seems to me that knife will go to the group that puts up the money (also stated on other threads six months ago) and I have a good idea of where that will be coming from and therefore my optimistic conclusions.

[Howard Riefs]

Shackelford with another run at handicapping the finalists.  The success of his near namesake Shackleford in the Triple Crown and Breeders' Cup races may have gone to Geoff's head as he takes a horse racing theme with handicapping the field  (http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2011/12/23/handicapping-the-olympic-design-finalists.html).


1-2  GOLDEN SWEDE (Jack Nicklaus/Annika Sorenstam)

4-1  HIGH POINTE (Tom Doak)

9-2   MY BROMANCE (Robert Trent Jones II/Mario Gonzalez)

8-1  TRUMP’S GROOM (Martin Hawtree)

9-1  MALVERN MISSILE (Gil Hanse)

14-1  GREAT WHITE MEXICAN (Greg Norman/Lorena Ochoa)

60-1  BLACK KNIGHT  (Gary Player)

99-1  TOMMO  (Peter Thomson/Ross Perrett)


The accompanying photo illustration is priceless...

[Jud_T]

Tom,

Jack was just on CNBC touting the Olympics as very important for the growth of the game and they got a plug in for his design bid...Time to light a fire under RGD's extensive PR department ...

[Randy Thompson]

If the winner is going to based on politics and P&R, Tom has already lost. He can´t compete with what Nicklaus has structured during 30 or more years. Lets hope they are looking for more important items that RGD brings to the table and brings it on a day to day basis.

[Dick Kirkpatrick]

I think we all know that it is a given that the IOC has issues of integrity.

The "committee" has had their "off the record" conference calls.

IMHO, I think the decision was made weeks ago.

They do not require the presentations, which cost most presenters upwards of $150 G's

[Mac Plumart]

So who got the nod a few weeks ago?

[cary lichtenstein]

It will be 100% politics

[Jason Walker]

I'm trying to remember who designed the triathlon course at the last Summer Olympics.  Or the cross country skiing course at the last Winter Olympics.  

Anyone know?

[Tom_Doak]

I am sure there are politics involved for every candidate.  It's just that none of you guys have a clue about what the politics really are.  One thing I can tell you is that the IOC is not directly involved in the decision at all ... it's public knowledge now [per this morning's Wall Street Journal] that the choice is a vote among the IGF, the city of Rio [landowner], the Rio Organizing Committee [representing the Games], and the local golf group which is going to operate the course afterward.  The latter three are the ones who are putting up the money to build the course, so it's only right for them to be making the decision.


Jason W:  The Olympics often get famous past skiers to help design the runs for the Olympic downhill and slalom events.  But, it's strictly a consulting deal, I don't think any of those guys have turned it into a multi-million dollar business.

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