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Michael Goldstein

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Re: Guess The 8 Finalists for the Olympic Design Job
« Reply #100 on: December 03, 2011, 04:58:13 AM »
Andrew, you don't support your local companies exporting their services to the world? 
@Pure_Golf

Matthew Mollica

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Re: Guess The 8 Finalists for the Olympic Design Job
« Reply #101 on: December 03, 2011, 05:44:59 AM »
Andrew, you don't support your local companies exporting their services to the world? 


I take it you are unfamiliar with Thomson's courses Michael.
"The truth about golf courses has a slightly different expression for every golfer. Which of them, one might ask, is without the most definitive convictions concerning the merits or deficiencies of the links he plays over? Freedom of criticism is one of the last privileges he is likely to forgo."

Michael Goldstein

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Re: Guess The 8 Finalists for the Olympic Design Job
« Reply #102 on: December 03, 2011, 05:58:47 AM »
Matthew, yes I am familiar with them.. ;D
@Pure_Golf

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Guess The 8 Finalists for the Olympic Design Job
« Reply #103 on: December 03, 2011, 06:16:12 AM »
Anybody want to give me Tom and Gil and 3-1 odds?
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Kalen Braley

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Re: Guess The 8 Finalists for the Olympic Design Job
« Reply #104 on: December 03, 2011, 07:56:36 AM »
Tom,

Its been asked before...but how sandy is the site?  From Google Earth its hard to tell if its actually sandy or just briny from baked out salt water that left behind a salty residue.

Thanks,

Kalen

Tim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Guess The 8 Finalists for the Olympic Design Job
« Reply #105 on: December 03, 2011, 09:56:20 AM »
Tom,

Its been asked before...but how sandy is the site?  From Google Earth its hard to tell if its actually sandy or just briny from baked out salt water that left behind a salty residue.

Thanks,

Kalen

Kalen, although I havve no 1st hand knowledge of the site, you can gleen a good amount of info from Google Earth.  Position your cursor on the Avenue of the Americas and drag the little guy icon over to the road. Now you can "drive" down the road and swing the camera to "look" out the window at the site.  What you will see is a dead flat site about 15-20' above sea level.  From the construction activities nearby, it does appear that the site is sand based. 
I wonder who owns those 3 residential/resort towers?  I would think they will see an escalation in value  ;D  Maybe that will be the greatest legacy of this venture.

I think an armchair contest would be interesting just to see how the minimalists would handle a site like this. You could do it now, because topo wouldn't be much help, although an accurate boundary would be helpful.
Coasting is a downhill process

Anthony Butler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Guess The 8 Finalists for the Olympic Design Job
« Reply #106 on: December 03, 2011, 10:34:29 AM »
Even though Nicklaus, as the biggest name involved, has the inside running, Peter Dawson's involvement and the curiously small amount of courses Jack has done in the British Isles might level the playing field somewhat:

Early line from Vegas:

Nicklaus 5-2
Player 6-1
Norman 8-1
Hawtree 10-1
RTJ II 20-1
Renaissance 14-1
Thomson/Perrett 20-1
Hanse 30-1
Next!

Kalen Braley

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Re: Guess The 8 Finalists for the Olympic Design Job
« Reply #107 on: December 03, 2011, 11:06:42 AM »
Tim,

I did do that, but unfortunately one can only see where one the Olympic Operational area is to be constructed from that road view.  The golf course will be set back from that main road.

This link gives you a better idea.....

http://www.landreader.com/2011/10/23/rio-2016-announces-golf-design-competition/

Tim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Guess The 8 Finalists for the Olympic Design Job
« Reply #108 on: December 03, 2011, 11:57:59 AM »
Kalen, well that provides the boundary.  I kinda figured that they would reserve the road frontage for development as there is already a couple hectatre site with the vegetation scrapped off.  There are a couple breaks in the road fence that gives you a pretty good look and idea of the complextion of the site.  Although ithe areas down by the lake are more interesting for golf, I wonder what the local environmental rules are.  I would hope anyone submitting on this already has a local environmental engineer/landscpae architet who knows the in's and out's.  And what are the International Golf Federation specifications?  Any extensive environmental permitting could sink the schedule.

On a side note, seeing that there is 1 from the Isles, 2 from Australia, 1 from South Africa (though Ernie would have been in there too!) Annika representing Europe and L.O. Mexico and 4 from the States, I was pretty close but erred on the extent of how far I figured they would take their Political Correctedness. I would have place good money on a bet for a Canadian and would have loved to see Ian & Mike get a shot. I gotta admit, I was a bit surprise with 4 Americans. Although Jake and Bobby didn't surprise me at all.  Nice to see Tom and Gil get a shot (although I would have thought the committee would have not had the ability to differentiate between the 2  ;D). And I really missed the boat on the token Asian (maybe there just isn't anyone who measures up).  Another long shot I was mulling over was a JV with Nick Faldo/Curley&Schmit.  I also never even considered that Pete Dye would throw his hat in the ring. 1st off, he doesn't do anything outside of the US (save for a Caribbean project) and he is not to suffer working for fools, escpeially at his age.
Another way to look at it is there are 4 Professional Golfer/Designers and 4 Journeymen Architects. So there is some paridy there too.
Coasting is a downhill process

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Guess The 8 Finalists for the Olympic Design Job
« Reply #109 on: December 03, 2011, 01:35:14 PM »
Not that I don't think that an American would design and build a worthy course, it seems that someone from outside the USA would be a good choice.  This would make a clear statement that golf is indeed a world sport and architects other than Americans are players on the world stage.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Tim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Guess The 8 Finalists for the Olympic Design Job
« Reply #110 on: December 03, 2011, 01:43:51 PM »
Tommy, I agree, and I think that Jack saw that too.  That's why he teamed with AS to make it Multi-contenental effort.  Choosing a women also made it gender neutral, possibly even appealing to a certain segement of the panel.  Of course Greg saw this move and quickly tried to one-up him and get a redible female partner who hails from the closest area to Rio. US/Euro vs Aust/Mex.  You have to give credit for being great marketers and being able to read the tea leaves.  Now it is just a matter of whether this will be seen as pandering.
Coasting is a downhill process

David Harshbarger

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Re: Guess The 8 Finalists for the Olympic Design Job
« Reply #111 on: December 03, 2011, 01:45:48 PM »
I wouldn't put so much stake in Nationality.  When you think about the large number of constraints on the course, and the potential for great variety and creativity that can be brought to bear on the solution, there's every reason to think that one team or another will present a solution that is head and shoulders above the rest.

If a team can really tap into the Zeitgeist of this Olympics, and put a plan on paper and PowerPoint that says, "This is Rio, and this is Rio expressed through golf," I think they could win regardless of their name or nationality.
The trouble with modern equipment and distance—and I don't see anyone pointing this out—is that it robs from the player's experience. - Mickey Wright

Jud_T

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Re: Guess The 8 Finalists for the Olympic Design Job
« Reply #112 on: December 03, 2011, 01:53:05 PM »
So now we need Affirmative Action in GCA?  How about simply hiring the best man for the job?
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Guess The 8 Finalists for the Olympic Design Job
« Reply #113 on: December 03, 2011, 02:05:41 PM »
Uppps I have been hit by too many acorns. Tom, I meant English Golf Union. Of course my point is two politically well connected architects not being picked by a very political organization surprises me.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Guess The 8 Finalists for the Olympic Design Job
« Reply #114 on: December 03, 2011, 02:10:27 PM »
David said:
Quote
"This is Rio, and this is Rio expressed through golf," I think they could win regardless of their name or nationality.

As I have mentioned above, I think that David's quote should be turned around a bit.  From what I've read and seen on 60 minutes report, the equation could be:

Tis is Rio, and Rio expressed through golf means Rio expressed through golf and Eike Batista.  Think Eike = Mitt;  Rio = Salt Lake.  Then think who has the best chance of breaking into that circle.  I think, Norman or Jack and outside chance Player.  Now, if Doak has some of his previous clients who have sway in that circle that have a chance to go to bat for him, well maybe....
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Randy Thompson

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Re: Guess The 8 Finalists for the Olympic Design Job
« Reply #115 on: December 03, 2011, 02:23:08 PM »
Enviromental regs say you can´t get near 30 meters of exsisting water and if its running water ie. a spring...fifty meters. This includes draiange swales that sometimes may have water running in them. Native trees are also a no-no but the property doesn´t seem to have any of those of any significance.
Like most on this site I would love to see Tom get it and my second choice would be Gil but they will have their work cut out for them. Nicklaus lobbied hard to get the sport back into the Olympics and brings strong marketing attributes to the table as pointed out on this site. He will have supporters on the committees and they will argue that our logical or preferable choices of TD or GH courses have limited world wide-international tournament experience. Non supporters will counter argue Jack´s comfort zone is not near a reasonable budget and they will be heavily critized if this course does not become a reality within a reasonable budget. It will also be hard to overcome the mentality of, We have a chance at a normal two million dollar design fee for the bargin price of 300,000. However Tom seems to want this project, and although he was born in the morning, it wasn´t this morning and I am sure he will pull a few rabbits out of the hat and not go down without a hell of a fight.
Anthonies odds look about right but I would move up TD to 6-1 and drop Player from that slot and move him down to the 14-1 slot. Am I missing something, what makes Player such a strong contender???

Tim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Guess The 8 Finalists for the Olympic Design Job
« Reply #116 on: December 03, 2011, 02:42:45 PM »
So now we need Affirmative Action in GCA?  How about simply hiring the best man for the job?

Jud, when di this ever become About Golf ?  Of course "they" need affirmative action.  Now, stop confusing the issue with common sense! ;D
Coasting is a downhill process

David Harshbarger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Guess The 8 Finalists for the Olympic Design Job
« Reply #117 on: December 03, 2011, 02:52:29 PM »
Jim,

With NBC as the broadcast rights holder in the U.S., and the Golf Channel part of that universe, and of course the highly coveted golf demographic, I'd expect wall-to-wall coverage.  NBC likes to squeeze as much coverage out of these deals as they can, and seem to enlist about every property they have in the effort.

Dave
The trouble with modern equipment and distance—and I don't see anyone pointing this out—is that it robs from the player's experience. - Mickey Wright

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Guess The 8 Finalists for the Olympic Design Job
« Reply #118 on: December 03, 2011, 03:16:55 PM »
I'm down to the Shark and L.O.
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Guess The 8 Finalists for the Olympic Design Job
« Reply #119 on: December 03, 2011, 03:58:35 PM »
Bohemian Grove..... ;)

This thing now will become worse than Herman Cain and his love life....while we all wish TD the best; these guys will get nasty.
I would put Player ahead of JN.  But I would put RTJ2 at the top now.
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Brett Morris

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Guess The 8 Finalists for the Olympic Design Job
« Reply #120 on: December 03, 2011, 06:06:37 PM »
Yes, good luck to Tom Doak and Gil Hanse.

In the end however my guess is it will go to Nicklaus since he is recognised worldwide amongst the whole golfing public instead of architecture fans.  Who better to promote the game in the Olympics then the man who holds 18 majors and universally recognised as the greatest ever to tee it up? 


Chris Johnston

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Re: Guess The 8 Finalists for the Olympic Design Job
« Reply #121 on: December 03, 2011, 07:47:25 PM »
Yes, good luck to Tom Doak and Gil Hanse.

In the end however my guess is it will go to Nicklaus since he is recognised worldwide amongst the whole golfing public instead of architecture fans.  Who better to promote the game in the Olympics then the man who holds 18 majors and universally recognised as the greatest ever to tee it up? 



Brett - add to that, Annika, the best female golfer in the modern era and the potential hype is absolutely astounding.  I'm sure they will do a fine job as would all of the entrants.  I have a preference but will keep it tom myself as I'm not on the selection committee.
 

Jim Colton

Re: Guess The 8 Finalists for the Olympic Design Job
« Reply #122 on: December 03, 2011, 08:02:19 PM »
I haven't found anything online that suggests when the final 8 were to be announced...even on thier main website.

So maybe given that Tom thinks the announcement will be today, he must be one of the 8 finalists the inside track!! :)

Phase II -
November 17/18 - Workshop to present project briefing to participants.
Phase III -
From November 19 to December 16 - term set for participants to prepare their proposals.
December 16 - deadline for proposal submission.
December 17 to 23 - the jury will interview the participating firms and carry out a final review of proposals.
December 23 - announcement of the successful candidate.


Given the announcement was a couple weeks late, is the rest of the schedule now pushed back as well? Is there another round of finalists? When will the winner be announced?

Jeff_Mingay

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Re: Guess The 8 Finalists for the Olympic Design Job
« Reply #123 on: December 03, 2011, 08:19:16 PM »

Brett - add to that, Annika, the best female golfer in the modern era and the potential hype is absolutely astounding.  I'm sure they will do a fine job as would all of the entrants.  I have a preference but will keep it tom myself as I'm not on the selection committee.
 

Chris - was that honestly a typo, or on purpose :)
jeffmingay.com

Chris Johnston

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Guess The 8 Finalists for the Olympic Design Job
« Reply #124 on: December 03, 2011, 09:27:55 PM »

Brett - add to that, Annika, the best female golfer in the modern era and the potential hype is absolutely astounding.  I'm sure they will do a fine job as would all of the entrants.  I have a preference but will keep it tom myself as I'm not on the selection committee.
 

Chris - was that honestly a typo, or on purpose :)

Jeff - typo  ???

The site looks intereting and very doakable for several of the parties ;)

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