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Ran Morrissett

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Profile of the Pete Dye Course at French Lick is profiled ...
« on: November 25, 2011, 02:49:51 PM »
... under Courses by Country.

Do you like Picasso’s early work during his Blue period or his Cubist work in the following decade? Maybe his surrealism or neo-expressionism works much later resonate more. It’s a personal preference. This artist’s incomparable career spanned seven decades and the study of Picasso is tantamount to the study of modern art. Could Picasso have stayed with one style his whole career? Perhaps, but ever restless, he opted instead to push himself and the bounds of his profession. In so doing, he stayed energized and he influenced gobs and gobs of people along the way.

What a premise to talk about the eighty-six year old Pete Dye and his peerless career! To discuss modern golf architecture is to discuss Pete Dye. Do you prefer his early lower profile Harbour Town, The Golf Club era or do you favor the grand projects featuring sweeping long vistas like The Ocean Course at Kiawah, Whistling Straits and here at French Lick built in the latter twenty years of his career? Or perhaps the period when he created so many courses on flat properties in South Carolina and Florida?

I was on the phone two days ago with Bill Coore asking him about Dye and his place in his profession. Bill said that he appreciates the fresh, innovative approach that an artist like Dye has brought to golf course architecture for over five decades. Specifically, Coore marvels at how one person could directly turn the direction of golf course architecture not once but TWICE; at Harbour Town and then again at TPC Sawgrass. Bill noted how being in the field and working for Dye forces you to become confident in what you are doing. I asked if that is why so many of Dye’s people  (Liddy, Coore, Whitman, Doak, etc.) have successfully hung up their own shingle.  Bill said yes, surely that must be a factor. I suggested to Bill that his own work is easier to stereotype than Dye’s and he agreed. Like Picasso, you are less sure of what you will see with Dye than any other great golf course architect. Some may view that as a criticism but I think that is GREAT. As Coore said, Dye is a ‘no fear’ guy. Bill also paid special note to Alice Dye and what her patience and communication skills meant to their overall accomplishments.

I didn’t play the Dye Course at French Lick as there wasn’t time to photograph in the optimum morning light, play and catch a 1pm flight out of Evansville. Personally, I am glad that I didn’t because the photos turned out so well – see if you agree! My initial reservation about the course was that its fairways were too narrow, averaging just 29 yards in width. After some research, a different picture emerges. Dye talks about his love of a new slow growing rough which stays relatively short. Because of its advent, Dye moved away from his usual wide fairways. Though you will likely miss a lot of fairways (especially if you play from the wrong set of tees), the result is more likely to be a flyer than a pitch out or lost ball. Couple this rough with intermediate sized greens in the 4,500 square foot range and an interesting challenge emerges. Unlike Bill Coore, Tim Liddy has been to French Lick and he amplifies on this : ‘The golf course looks hard and plays easy from the correct tees. Coore and Doak have many examples where width acts as the primary asset for playability. This golf course has width OFF the fairways, as the rough is cut very short for everyday play enabling the golf course  to play wider than it looks. As there are chipping areas on one side of each green site the width for the approach shot can be nearly twice what it appears at first glance.’ The vast majority of my favorite courses feature 40 to 55 yard wide fairways but this is a different take. I can’t wait to go back and play this course next year and sort this all out in my own noggin.



A remarkable design emerged on top of Mount Airie from Pete Dye.

As true of any profession, everyone is best off when they stick to their strengths. Dye was not skilled at drawing plans so he had to be in the field in order to communicate what he wanted. Later, when certain agencies required drawings Dye involved others with his operation. As Liddy explains:

'Dye was working on Kiawah and he asked that I visit him there and work out of his condo. It was a very special introduction to golf course architecture. Drawing in the mornings and shadowing him in the afternoons while he built Kiawah for the Ryder Cup. He would show me his concepts on the ground at the same time I was drafting them. Since I was drawing his golf course (grading and layout plans) he needed to explain, in detail, his reasoning on each golf hole, as well as all features; greens, tees, bunkers, etc. Because permits were beginning to be required by governments for development on his other projects all over the country, I quickly became a good conduit for preparing the necessary grading and layout drawings. This lead to more and more responsibility, and I eventually became a project architect, and later a full-fledged society (ASGCA) member.'

Tim has seen up close what Dye has meant to his profession and it serves as but one example of Dye’s impact on a fellow architect. From a distance, Dye meant to me “no coat and tie”! I have seen countless photos of Robert Trent Jones in a suit and tie, reminding me of my grandfather who wore a tie under his cardigan sweater every Saturday and Sunday. Yet, the majority of Dye pictures involve mud covered work boots. I think that is the seismic difference between Jones and Dye and subsequently Dye’s students: The hands on, in the field approach to architecture. Dye singlehandedly transformed it from a desk job to a dirt job and we should all be thankful for that. It is certainly true for Liddy, Whitman, Coore,  Doak et al. The courses spawned from the sweat of these guys making it happen are as good as any that have ever been built.

And the Pete Dye Course at French Lick is certainly Dye’s design as he made over 150 visits during construction. I doubt that eighty-six year old Dye will ever pour so much personal attention into a project again. So, studying the Dye Course is most instructive as one can glean what the Master has learned during his 50+ years in the business. Plus I give him a lot of credit for always remaining true to himself throughout his career and for never mellowing. Most people tend to fade away toward the back end of their career – not Pete Dye! If you want to study golf course architecture, you need to soak in its wide variety. What a treat to juxtapose this course with 161 bunkers and six waste areas built on a severe site against its sister Ross course in the valley with its beautiful topography and the recently profiled Huntercombe with only thirteen bunkers.

Don't you think that as your appreciation for variety increases in any art form, so too does your understanding? I do. Hope you enjoy this profile of a course that provides beauty and challenge like no other.

Cheers,
« Last Edit: November 25, 2011, 02:53:34 PM by Ran Morrissett »

Matt Kardash

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Re: Profile of the Pete Dye Course at French Lick is profiled ...
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2011, 05:37:15 PM »
I have never played this course but thru the various photos I have seen I thought it looked cool. It is kind of the opposite of the current fad in architecture, so I can see why it might not be trendy to like this course. This course looks to be a marvel of engineering and a beautiful piece of sculpting. Since it is a Dye course i have no doubt that it is full of interesting strategies.

For what it is worth I saw an interview where Dye said if he had to pick a favourite hole on the course he would probably pick the 12th hole. He said he likes how that hole and green hugs the ground.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2011, 11:59:23 AM by matt kardash »
the interviewer asked beck how he felt "being the bob dylan of the 90's" and beck quitely responded "i actually feel more like the bon jovi of the 60's"

Andy Troeger

Re: Profile of the Pete Dye Course at French Lick is profiled ...
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2011, 09:36:04 PM »
Ran,
Your photos are amazing. Its a beautiful setting even on less-than-perfect days, but you caught a wonderful time to take the photographs. The site is amazing, and Mr. Harner and his staff are very hospitable. I had a chance on my last visit to play the Ross and Dye and visited both hotels and the Bendelow pro-shop. I had no idea that the 12th green of the Dye Course was on the land of the old Bendelow Course--it certainly looks totally different now! The old course had one par three (the 5th) that went straight uphill. It was an odd but kind of amusing hole.

I admit that I'm not sold on the idea of having narrow fairways but signficant playable width. And not because what you've written isn't true--if the golfer misses the fairway there's a significant chance of finding a playable spot. The problem to me is because of a combination of factors. First, the fairways are too narrow for most golfers to reasonably hope to hit with any regularity unless they are very consistently accurate. Even aiming for the middle is no guarantee. Further compounding this is that most of them are angled from the tee, so you have to shape a shot and/or know how far to try to hit the ball to determine where to aim in the first place. Second, in a fair amount of cases, the worst trouble is located right off the fairway, and the bigger miss tends to find flatter lies and fewer bunkers. Dye uses quite a few of his steep slopes and falloffs, and in many cases missing the green by about 5 yards leads to real  trouble while missing by 20 yards is just fine. Third, there's so much randomness in the rough that its hard to determine any kind of strategy as to where you'd LIKE to be, given that its so difficult to hit the fairways. Even though I don't think the course is too hard for golfers playing the right tees, I don't think it has the strategy of Dye's courses with wider fairways because the fairways are too narrow to even contemplate aiming for the edges of them--its too close to "hit and hope." Perhaps its more intriguing for a really good driver of the ball. Fourth, on holes like #3 and #18, if you do miss the fairway and end up on a sideslope, it becomes very difficult to get the ball back in the fairway because of the really uneven lies and the angled targets. Its perhaps personal preference as to whether this course is as good, better, or not as good as Dye's earlier efforts, but for me it doesn't really hold up to the high standard of PDGC, The Golf Club, etc. Its not any harder necessarily, just not as strategically interesting. Perhaps its a course that just takes a lot of plays to understand--I admittedly didn't have that luxury, but I think it would help. 

John Mayhugh

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Re: Profile of the Pete Dye Course at French Lick is profiled ...
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2011, 09:39:37 PM »
Thanks for this, Ran.  Your wonderful photos really make it look enticing, and it's nice to know there is some short rough to make the course play wider than it looks in the pictures.  The green fee and overnight stay requirement have combined to keep me away thus far, but I may have to just suck it up sometime next year.  

Matt Kardash

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Re: Profile of the Pete Dye Course at French Lick is profiled ...
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2011, 09:52:55 PM »
About the narrow fairways: If I had to guess I would probably say that Dye got sick and tired of his fariways being forever narrowed once one of his courses got a PGA event (all you need to do is look at Whistling Straits to see what I am saying). I remember Dye being interviewed when tournaments would be held at his courses and he wished they wouldn't have narrowed the fairways. In that light he probably started to think "if the PGA tour is going to narrow my fairways to where the hazards are 10 and 15 yards removed from the fairways, then I might as well design a course where the fairways will not be narrowed any further". At least in this way the course at least will remain the course he had in mind. I find it criminal to see what has happened to Whistling Straits The bunkers the once flanked the fairways now have 10 or 15 yards of rough between.The 6th hole has now lost half its fairway, with a center-line pot bunker now becoming a bunker in the left rough!!

Dye knew when building French Lick that there was a good chance of a major tournament being held there one day. He probably also knew he most likely would not be around to see that day come.....so he might as well build a course they can't alter.

Maybe what I am saying is s stretch, but I wouldn't be surprised if it crossed his mind.
the interviewer asked beck how he felt "being the bob dylan of the 90's" and beck quitely responded "i actually feel more like the bon jovi of the 60's"

Andy Troeger

Re: Profile of the Pete Dye Course at French Lick is profiled ...
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2011, 10:19:05 PM »
Matt,
Interesting theory. Based on comments in the the profile and things I had heard previously, the narrow fairways were something he did on purpose and the explanation is interesting. It would be a good challenge for the tournament golfer because of all the things I mentioned in my first post, but also a bit forgiving for the regular guy who has no clue where its going.

Jeff_Mingay

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Re: Profile of the Pete Dye Course at French Lick is profiled ...
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2011, 11:48:17 AM »
Great commentary on Mr. Dye, Ran. Love it.

I'm sure all of the classic attributes are there, but that French Lick course is really bizarre looking. It looks a bit like the TPC course he did in New Orleans, on steroids. 
jeffmingay.com

Ross Harmon

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Re: Profile of the Pete Dye Course at French Lick is profiled ...
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2011, 06:25:04 PM »
Thanks Ran! I enjoyed your and Tim's thoughts, can't wait to play both French Lick courses next year!

Joel_Stewart

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Re: Profile of the Pete Dye Course at French Lick is profiled ...
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2011, 07:24:30 PM »
Those volcano bunkers look ridiculous.


Mac Plumart

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Re: Profile of the Pete Dye Course at French Lick is profiled ...
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2011, 08:41:41 PM »
Those volcano bunkers look ridiculous.



Ridiculously cool!!
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

JC Jones

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I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

PThomas

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Re: Profile of the Pete Dye Course at French Lick is profiled ...
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2011, 01:13:05 AM »
Those volcano bunkers look ridiculous.



Ridiculously cool!!

i agree with you Mac..they are even better in person!
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Joel_Stewart

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Re: Profile of the Pete Dye Course at French Lick is profiled ...
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2011, 06:47:16 PM »
Those volcano bunkers look ridiculous.
Ridiculously cool!!
i agree with you Mac..they are even better in person!

I wonder what Raynor or Mackenzie would say about those volcano bunkers.  I stand by my comments they are ridiculous.  Completely manufactured (I doubt any sheep burrowed into those tops), symmetrical and just downright stupid?  Because of those and the comment it's the hardest course someone has played (which I expected from a Pete Dye course) I seriously doubt I would play here.

Chris Buie

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Re: Profile of the Pete Dye Course at French Lick is profiled ...
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2011, 06:08:10 AM »
Pete and Alice Dye certainly are very talented designers. The area is remarkably beautiful. The resort first rate. The engineering of their French Lick course is quite a feat. It's great to see an under heralded place get the attention it deserves here.
Perhaps I've got it not quite right, but it appears to me that Dye's approach is the opposite of MacKenzie. You all know the Dr.'s maxim regarding 'pleasure to the greatest possible number'. The parts I've read over the years from Mr. Dye are focused on how less than 1% of the players do on his courses. Maybe that is not the core of his philosophy and consequent design - but that is the essence of what I've read.
If that is the case then I'd have to say that I prefer MacKenzie's core belief.
Largely orient your designs around how .001% of the players go about the game? Not something I'd really advocate but it is good to have different kinds of courses. It's good to see particularly talented individuals have a go at something uncommon. IMHO there is room for a handful of those courses but mainly I'd say the courses being built should not be calibrated so high on the difficulty scale.
As I've bloviated before, the vast majority of courses built during my life have been too difficult for the average golfer to play. That parameter of challenge has been the accepted norm for quite a while. Most seem to think that's ok.  I don't. I think it short changes the pleasure the player could be deriving from the game. And let's not underestimate the importance of that.
It seems to me that designers should be putting together places that are a delightful afternoon journey. There is plenty of strong challenge in life - golf should be a kind of counter balance to that - something rejuvenating. There's room for a few more difficult courses I suppose, but the trend should be toward the charming rather than the very demanding. Charm is by far the main thing I like to see in a course.
As ever, that is just my point of view.
Having said that, I would never the less enjoy having a go at this Dye course on occasion. It's good to have some variety, is it not?

PCCraig

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Re: Profile of the Pete Dye Course at French Lick is profiled ...
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2011, 09:09:28 AM »
Ran,

Thank you for your review, which includes some fantastic pictures. The Dye Course at FL certainly occupies a very scenic property.

Chris,

Pete and Alice Dye certainly are very talented designers. The area is remarkably beautiful. The resort first rate. The engineering of their French Lick course is quite a feat. It's great to see an under heralded place get the attention it deserves here.
Perhaps I've got it not quite right, but it appears to me that Dye's approach is the opposite of MacKenzie. You all know the Dr.'s maxim regarding 'pleasure to the greatest possible number'. The parts I've read over the years from Mr. Dye are focused on how less than 1% of the players do on his courses. Maybe that is not the core of his philosophy and consequent design - but that is the essence of what I've read.
If that is the case then I'd have to say that I prefer MacKenzie's core belief.
Largely orient your designs around how .001% of the players go about the game? Not something I'd really advocate but it is good to have different kinds of courses. It's good to see particularly talented individuals have a go at something uncommon. IMHO there is room for a handful of those courses but mainly I'd say the courses being built should not be calibrated so high on the difficulty scale.
As I've bloviated before, the vast majority of courses built during my life have been too difficult for the average golfer to play. That parameter of challenge has been the accepted norm for quite a while. Most seem to think that's ok.  I don't. I think it short changes the pleasure the player could be deriving from the game. And let's not underestimate the importance of that.
It seems to me that designers should be putting together places that are a delightful afternoon journey. There is plenty of strong challenge in life - golf should be a kind of counter balance to that - something rejuvenating. There's room for a few more difficult courses I suppose, but the trend should be toward the charming rather than the very demanding. Charm is by far the main thing I like to see in a course.
As ever, that is just my point of view.
Having said that, I would never the less enjoy having a go at this Dye course on occasion. It's good to have some variety, is it not?

You raise some interesting points, mostly reduced come to the question: why do people enjoy playing Pete Dye's golf courses when they are so difficult? (Correct me if I'm wrong). The Dye Course at French Lick is possibly the most extreme golf course of Dye's that I've played...the fairways are narrow, sure, but what makes the course very difficult is that the greens run pretty small as well. So perhaps its a bad example for my main point ;)

However, I've generally found that while Dye places a heavy weight on challenging the better players, I've found that from the correct set of tees, his courses are never as hard as they look and are generally a blast to play. I think many of his more well known courses (Kiawah, WS, French Lick, Blackwolf Run, Harbor Town, etc...) are "destination" golf courses, on which many people feel the need to play the set of tees which will give them "their money's worth" which often leads to a long day for them. Last week I played The Ocean Course at Kiawah on a calm, warm fall day from the "Dye" tees at ~6450 yards and thought the golf course was a perfect balance of hard, easy, and fun. I'm hardly the longest driver of the golf ball, but I was able to reasonably go for two par 5's in two (#7 and #16) and I don't remember if I had more than one long iron approach to a par-4 (but still managed an 82  ::) ), so I felt with those indicators that I was at the correct set of tees. Sure his courses are tough, but I think many make them harder than they need to be by playing the wrong set of tees.
H.P.S.

Andy Troeger

Re: Profile of the Pete Dye Course at French Lick is profiled ...
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2011, 09:36:16 AM »
I don't think this course is as difficult as many of Dye's others actually, assuming you play the correct tees. There's far less water than PDGC, Oak Tree, Long Cove, etc. and as mentioned the rough is usually not kept that high. I blasted it all over the place and shot 40 on the back nine which I played first--most drives ended up ok, including a few way off line. The front nine got me back...but its not unplayable by any means. I just don't think its strategic for anyone but perhaps a professional who can hit 25 yard fairways. The rest of us just have to hit it out there and hope to get a nice lie in the rough!

Not a big fan of the volcano bunkers--I think Joel's reaction is pretty close to mine. I do give Dye credit for being original though, even if that concept isn't my cup of tea. Many of his unique features are things I've really enjoyed, and clearly the volcano appeals to some folks.

Mac Plumart

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Re: Profile of the Pete Dye Course at French Lick is profiled ...
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2011, 11:06:33 AM »
Those volcano bunkers look ridiculous.
Ridiculously cool!!
i agree with you Mac..they are even better in person!

I wonder what Raynor or Mackenzie would say about those volcano bunkers.  I stand by my comments they are ridiculous.  Completely manufactured (I doubt any sheep burrowed into those tops), symmetrical and just downright stupid?  Because of those and the comment it's the hardest course someone has played (which I expected from a Pete Dye course) I seriously doubt I would play here.

Joel...As JC alluded to, I am a Dye fan.  I don't know why...but his work strikes me.  From a critical standpoint, you are most likely more correct than I am about the 'cano bunkers.  For sure, Mackenzie would hate them.  Raynor most likely has no use for them, as they weren't part of the template process.  But one of the things I love about Dye, is the he goes directly against the grain of modern trends.  The Golf Club focused on minamlism in the time of RTJ.  Harbour Town is a tight course with small greens...a unique concept back then, and kind of now.  Sawgrass an introduction of good golf and bad land and over the top shaping and features.  And now this bad boy, that, I think, tips out at 8,000 yards.  Designed to test the PGA guys.  But what I like about all the Dye courses I've played, is that they test the best but are playable for hacks like me if the right tees are played.

But, again, you are probably right and I am wrong...but Dye strikes a chord with me.
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Chris Buie

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Re: Profile of the Pete Dye Course at French Lick is profiled ...
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2011, 11:19:19 AM »
Quote
why do people enjoy playing Pete Dye's golf courses when they are so difficult?
Hi Pat! Yeah, the only Dye course I recall playing is Harbour Town. I enjoyed it even though it's quite narrow. So your question as to why people enjoy his courses despite their challenge level is a very good one. I don't think I have a good answer to that except to say that Mr. Dye's knowledge of course design is undoubtedly vast. He certainly knows exactly what he is doing. If you have that much knowledge and a particularly inventive spirit then I wouldn't imagine you'd be so keen on turning out something predictable or expected. I'm guessing that putting different scenarios into play would be far more appealing and stimulating. Maybe he leans more toward being an artist than a craftsman in that regard. Ross perhaps leaned a little more toward being a craftsman. It doesn't appear to me that Ross had much interior need to do radical variations with his design expertise.
Ross seemed to go through a very natural evolution where his talents reached many very great heights - but not really extraordinary
stylistic changes. That is not a put down of Ross in the slightest. It is just a contrast in design approach, style, personality. That's a good thing because like I said before, a certain amount of variety in course design is desirable - as long as the ones plying their trade are really talented chaps.
A lot of those heavyweight Dye courses are resorts, are the not? Perhaps that has something to do with their appeal to many. That is, I wonder if people would get the same amount of enjoyment if they tackled those uncommon and tough courses on a day to day basis? What would work on a course you play once or twice a year may not be what you'd want to see on your home course - and vice versa.
Artist vs. craftsman...
Home course design vs. resort design...
Can't really get into that now because I've got to run!

John Nixon

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Re: Profile of the Pete Dye Course at French Lick is profiled ...
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2011, 11:59:05 AM »
Why does everyone assume all of Mr. Dye's courses are difficult? We always hear about his courses that are intended to be real tests, but sometimes he designs a course that's meant to be challenging, but not punishing. Here in central Indiana I'd put up Kampen as something intended to be a real test, and, say, Woodland Country Club or Plum Creek (despite it's cookie-cutter housing surrounds) as challenging, but very playable courses.

Chris Buie

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Re: Profile of the Pete Dye Course at French Lick is profiled ...
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2011, 12:27:02 PM »
Quote
Why does everyone assume all of Mr. Dye's courses are difficult?
Where does anyone say all of Mr. Dye's courses are difficult?
But I think I understand what you're saying. The reason we are discussing his difficulty level is because the courses most of us are aware of are in fact very challenging. Nobody is assuming they know his whole portfolio. I'd certainly enjoy reading a well put together piece about some great but lesser known courses he's done that do not exceed the capabilities of the average player.

Bart Bradley

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Re: Profile of the Pete Dye Course at French Lick is profiled ...
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2011, 08:48:50 PM »
Growing up in Pete's backyard (Indiana), I have played over 30 of Mr. Dye's courses.  He offers a wide range of difficulty, from the highest level to mid-level.  I have never seen one of his courses that I could call easy.  He loves angles:  angled greens, capes, even fairways angled from the line off the tee without a hazard to carry.  These angles, in my mind, define Mr. Dye's work.  Because of his reputation and standing in golf at the time of the golf course boom, many came to Pete to enlist his help in building courses to test the best in the game...such as Sawgrass, Kiawah, Stadium at PGA West, and the courses at Kohler.  Many of these courses became his most famous because they hosted important tournaments and accordingly people think that he designs hard courses.  He has some lovely mid-difficulty courses all over Indiana.  Check out the Fort in Indy as a fun example.

These are the best pictures Ran has ever taken.  I wonder if the course is as good as these photos suggest...quite generally, I think pictures fail to do complete justice to a course (but this might just be the exception).

Bart


Matt Kardash

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Re: Profile of the Pete Dye Course at French Lick is profiled ...
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2011, 10:48:48 PM »
I truly believe that Dye's courses LOOK more difficult than they actually play. In that sense, he is a lot like Mackenzie.
the interviewer asked beck how he felt "being the bob dylan of the 90's" and beck quitely responded "i actually feel more like the bon jovi of the 60's"

John Nixon

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Re: Profile of the Pete Dye Course at French Lick is profiled ...
« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2011, 09:33:00 AM »
Let me try and rephrase: My take on most of the central IN Dye courses I've played is, basically, this:  I never feel like I've been beat up by the course, and no matter how high my score may have been, I almost always feel that if I'd just played a little bit better I would have scored much better. I rarely find myself thinking that I am out of my league, or that a shot is being demanded of me that I am incapable of making.

 Well, other than the Kampen course...    ;)

Mike Hendren

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Re: Profile of the Pete Dye Course at French Lick is profiled ...
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2011, 03:35:00 PM »
I truly believe that Dye's courses LOOK more difficult than they actually play. In that sense, he is a lot like Mackenzie.

Interesting, since I have generally felt that Mackenzie's courses played more difficult than they look.

I'm a Dye fan but those bunkers remind me of the Whack-A-Mole game at the arcade.

Bogey
« Last Edit: December 01, 2011, 03:38:11 PM by Michael_Hendren »
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

JLahrman

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Re: Profile of the Pete Dye Course at French Lick is profiled ...
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2011, 03:44:33 PM »
Interesting, since I have generally felt that Mackenzie's courses played more difficult than they look.

I'm a Dye fan but those bunkers remind me of the Whack-A-Mole game at the arcade.

Bogey

I love the look.  I love the seamlessly integrated look of the Ross course (which I've played) and the violent lines and angles of the Dye course (which I haven't played).  Just don't mix them up.  I don't like fusion restaurants either.

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