[Jay Flemma]

I was there last weekend and the rough was down to a tolerable level - you could go for the green! - and the greens were on the slower side so I didn't putt off the front of 15.  Great day for 27 holes.  Anybody else enjoying the laid-back conditions?

[Sam Morrow]

I was there last weekend and the rough was down to a tolerable level - you could go for the green! - and the greens were on the slower side so I didn't putt of the front of 15.  Great day for 27 holes.  Anybody else enjoying the laid-back conditions?

Is that an invitation for the board?

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Is WF public now? I missed that in the NYT.

[Sam Morrow]

Is WF public now? I missed that in the NYT.

Steve,

Need a partner?

[Jay Flemma]

I'm not a member I can't invite anyone...but I can say the course was in great shape and if you get a chance, play!

[Sam Morrow]

I'm not a member I can't invite anyone...but I can say the course was in great shape and if you get a chance, play!

Tease. Has there ever been a time when you wouldn't recommend that someone play WFW?

[rjsimper]

I'm not a member I can't invite anyone...but I can say the course was in great shape and if you get a chance, play!

....because if you got an invitation when the conditions weren't as they are now, one would surely decline.

 

[Jay Flemma]

Of course not...but you may never get a better chance at a career day as now, so logically there's times when you'd recommend it more than others.  Or when the opportunity is greater.  Or the conditions are better, like now.  The rough is short and the greens are slower. You don't have to walk on eggshells the whole day.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Are we talking about Wing Foot West or some  other WFW

[Will Lozier]

Of course not...but you may never get a better chance at a career day as now, so logically there's times when you'd recommend it more than others.  Or when the opportunity is greater.  Or the conditions are better, like now.  The rough is short and the greens are slower. You don't have to walk on eggshells the whole day.

Given that opportunity, what did you manage to shoot Jay?

[Will Lozier]

I was there last weekend and the rough was down to a tolerable level - you could go for the green! - and the greens were on the slower side so I didn't putt of the front of 15.  Great day for 27 holes.  Anybody else enjoying the laid-back conditions?

You mean putt right off that quirky false front?

[Jay Flemma]

Are we talking about Wing Foot West or some  other WFW

Yes, Winged Foot West.

[Dan Byrnes]

Seems to me no bad time to play WF, either course.

Dan

[Sam Morrow]

Seems to me no bad time to play WF, either course.

Dan

I agree, I think Jay just wanted to rub it in.

[Tim Martin]

The culture at Winged Foot is not conducive to slow greens so I`m sure that Jay`s observation must be put in context as in slower is still not slow. I would agree with the other posters that there is no bad time to play and whatever the current conditions are this is a brutally tough golf course.

[Jay Flemma]

That's the whole point of the post...it just wasn't brutally tough.  The rough is down people.  It was short...I didn't have to chip out sideways all day long and could advance it toward the green every time.  They were quick and smooth, but not frighteningly fast so that you had to putt defensively.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jay,

Unfortunately, WF recently terminated Matt Burrows, despite the course being in great shape.
Politics rather than Agronomy seems to be the culprit.

WF has had an inordinate number of superintendents in a relatively short period of time.

One has to question..... WHY ?

[JMEvensky]

Jay,

Unfortunately, WF recently terminated Matt Burrows, despite the course being in great shape.
Politics rather than Agronomy seems to be the culprit.

WF has had an inordinate number of superintendents in a relatively short period of time.

One has to question..... WHY ?

I have zero knowledge of specific WF politics,but the answer is a new guy (Green Chairman or President) decides to put his own ideas in place.What better way to impress your friends than by saying "I got the Super fired"?

I'm fairly certain you already knew this.

The interesting/scary part for me is that,if this can happen at a club where everyone will know about it,imagine the stupid stuff done at unknown clubs.

[Carl Nichols]

Jay,

Unfortunately, WF recently terminated Matt Burrows, despite the course being in great shape.
Politics rather than Agronomy seems to be the culprit.

WF has had an inordinate number of superintendents in a relatively short period of time.

One has to question..... WHY ?

I have zero knowledge of specific WF politics,but the answer is a new guy (Green Chairman or President) decides to put his own ideas in place.What better way to impress your friends than by saying "I got the Super fired"?

I'm fairly certain you already knew this.

The interesting/scary part for me is that,if this can happen at a club where everyone will know about it,imagine the stupid stuff done at unknown clubs.

I know absolutely nothing about WFW either, but it can't be the case that every single time a club changes its superintendent it's necessarily the club acting inappropriately.  Maybe the guy asked for too much money; maybe he ignored very good suggestions; maybe he burned through the budget; maybe he was a terrible manager; maybe he said or did something inappropriate.  I'm not saying, of course, that any of this happened at WFW (or any other course) -- but I don't think that you can always assume it was some meddling greens chairman who did something wrong. 

[JMEvensky]

Carl,Pat Mucci and others have stated that WF is/was in great shape agronomically--I have no reason to doubt that.Take course condition out of the equation and I'm going to side with Pat--club politics were involved.

Quoting Damon Runyan--the favorite doesn't always win the race,but that's the way you bet.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Carl

If a club goes through 6 Supers in 13 years would you tend to dismiss agronomic issues, and the issues you cited.

Many clubs change Supers for valid reasons, specific to their circumstances.
Many times it's for reasons you'd have to question.

If a club goes thru 6 Supers in 13 years, where would you think the problem lies ?

[Anthony_Nysse]

Mr Mucci,
  All those Superintendents were not terminated. Many left on their own terms to pursue other courses, retirement or be closer to family. The picture that you paint is that WF fired them all and that is not the case.

[Carl Nichols]

Pat,
I'm not willing to speculate one way or the other about what happened with Mr. Burrows -- but you and several others are, apparently.  Unless you know what actually happened, in which case that would be much more enlightening than a bunch of idle speculation.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mr Mucci,
  
All those Superintendents were not terminated.

I never said that they were.

Many left on their own terms to pursue other courses, retirement or be closer to family.

Let's analyze your statement.
1.  A superintendent is newly hired at one of the icons in American golf and they want to pursue other courses ?
2.  A superintendent is newly hired and wants to retire after 1, 2, or 3 years on the job ?
3.  Closer to family ?  Why take the job in the first place ?

The picture that you paint is that WF fired them all and that is not the case.

That's not the picture I painted, that's what you infered.

Would you say that it's normal for a club to go through 6 Supers in 13 years  ?

Would you say it's normal that a Super would come to one of the great icons in American golf, only to leave shortly thereafter ?

Or, would you say that maybe, just maybe, there's a more systemic issue/s ?

Carl,

I'm not speculating about anything.

However, I'm under no obligation to enlighten you or anyone else.

[John Blain]

If Winged Foot was supposedly in such great shape this year then why did the club feel compelled to send out a letter this summer to the membership basically apologiizing for the poor conditions?

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