[Matt Ward]

Through my sources I have ascertained The 2001 Golf Digest Best New survey and I am sharing it with GCA ahead of the actual January issue which won't hit newstands / subscribers for at least the next 7-10 days.

The results are certainly going to cause considerable discussion. I personally am happy to see the results of the Upscale listing because I truly believe Pacific Dunes was the best of the lot ... congrats Tom Doak / Mike Keiser and company -- although I personally believe Wolf Creek should have finished second ahead of Arcadia Bluffs.

Again, what surprises me greatly is the omission in the private category. The Kingsley Club, Mike DeVries sensational design in Michigan did not even make the top ten ... even though GD panelists rated nearby Arcadia Bluffs so highly. Confusing -- you bet! :-/

Also snubbed out of private consideration were Carnegie Abbey (RI) and Hamilton Farm (NJ). I was also surprised that Lost Canyons (Sky Course), Simi Valley, CA, also did not make the top ten upscale public listing.

As I said before I hope those who comment on GD raters understand that not all of us share the same thoughts on what makes for quality golf architecture and courses.
 
Let the discussion begin ...

Private

1) Kinloch, VA
2) Spring Creek Ranch, TN
3) The Members Club at Aldarra, WA
4) The Club at Porto Cima, MO
5) The Club at Las Campanas (Sunset Cse), NM
6) Isabella, AR
7) Eagle Point, NC
Iron Horse, MT
9) The Stone Canyon, AZ
10) Kiawah Island (Cassique), SC

Upscale Public
1) Pacific Dunes (OR)
2) Arcadia Bluffs (MI)
3) Wolf Creek at Paradise Canyon (NV)
4) Great River (CT)
5) Saratoga National (NY)
6) Shepherd's Hollow, (MI)
7) The Golf Cse. at Glen Mills, (PA)
Avalon Lakes, (OH)
9) Shenendoah, (NY)
10) Ocean Hammock, (FL)


Affordable Public
1) The GC at Redlands Mesa, CO
2) The Harvester, IA
3) Dacotah Ridge, MN
4) Olympia Hills G & Conf. Ctr., TX
5) Ol' Colony G. Complex, AL
6) Old Silo, KY
7) Coyote Crossing, IN
Aspen Lakes, OR
9) New Albany Links, OH
10) Murphy Creek, CO

[Mike @ Kiawah]

All of you GolfWeek panelists will have the opportunity to play the No. 10 course on the private list, Cassique, during next September's Ranker's Cup.  We're in the process of setting things up with GolfWeek to have y'all out to Kiawah Island to play The Ocean Course (Dye) (after Pete tweeks it next summer), Cassique (Watson) and Yeamans Hall (Raynor) with optional play on The River Course (Fazio), Turtle Point (Nicklaus) and Osprey Point (Fazio).  We look forward to having y'all down to the Lowcountry...

[RJ_Daley]

Matt, I'm just wondering if the fact that KC didn't make it is due to lack of a fully operation clubhouse when the raters visited.  I am not sure of KCs progress on a clubhouse since I haven't been there since fall of 2000.  But, could that have made a differece?  Of course most of us would say that it is the course we want to have rated, but...

Since AB is in the upscale public, and KC is private, at least that isn't so objectionable in that they are in two different catagories.  

I got a chuckle out of the emoticon being displayed with your 8th selections followed by a ).  

[BillV]

Mike@Kiawah

It's called the Rater's Cup.

To All

I una-BASH-edly   recommend skipping Osprey Point.  I found it banal even compared to Player's Cougar Point on my last visit to Kiawah.  (Sorry, Mike, honestly.)

[Mike_Cirba]

WOW, Matt.  I don't know what to make of all that.

I can only comment locally that although it's sort of nice to see Bobby Weed's Glen Mills course making the top 10, it mostly likely doesn't deserve it due to the constricted, claustrophobic back nine as well as a few perenially soggy holes on the front.

Off the top of my head, I've played at least 3 courses built in the 2000 time frame that were clearly superior.

I'm also curious, after all of the ballyhoo and publicity, where Pine Hill is?  Matt, I know your JerseyGolfer magazine has it ranked as the best public course in NJ, and although I don't agree with that, I am frankly amazed to see it didn't make the Top 10 Best new nationally.

[BillV]

Thanks for the post, Matt, but as we and others have discussed off line, best new and best in state at Golf Digest&reg are much too sensitive to how many have visited the course in question and their personal tastes.

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

BillV--

Rater's Cup it is...  No problem with your opinion of Osprey Point.  Personally, I like Turtle Point much, much better.  Upon arrival on the Thursday, we'll have optional play on The River Course (sorry, it's a Fazio course, BillV).  That night we'll have a Lowcountry Oyster Roast/Pig BBQ at Mingo Point.  Friday morning we'll have play at The Ocean Course with optional afternoon play at The River Course, Turtle Point or Osprey Point.  That night, we'll have your formal dinner program at the new Turtle Point Clubhouse (hopefully, with Pete Dye).  Saturday we'll have play at Cassique with the same optional play as on Friday.  A casual dinner will be held at The Beach Club.  Sunday will be Yeamans Hall (although I haven't been dealing directly with them, but I believe someone from GolfWeek has...).

[David Wigler]

I weep for the current state of Golf Architecture if Shepard’s Hollow is the sixth best public course built in the United States this year.  Shepard’s Hollow IMO has the most interesting green complex's Art Hills has ever built.  Of course, that compliment rests right up their with: The most attractive women who came out publicly to have an affair with Clinton while he was President (While president excludes Jennifer Flowers), the best meal my wife has ever cooked, or the best high fade approach Gib Papazian has ever hit into a long par four.  Beyond the greens, the course is fairly routine.  

I have to admit that the clubhouse is extremely attractive, the food is very good for a golf course and the service may be the best I have ever had at a public course in Michigan.  I do not see how any of that equates to it being the sixth best new course in the country, but that is just my opinion.

[Gib_Papazian]

The fact that Barona Creek was not listed strikes me as strange as the omission  of Kingsley.

At least the GD gang had enough taste to leave off Bali Hai.

[BillV]

Mike@K

Actually I am very open minded, but Osprey Point greatly disappointed me but it is a good place to put the casual players that come to play at Kiawah.  I was there with an Orthopaedic group 2 falls ago and played the 3 aforementioned courses and they were 1-OC, 2-CP, 17-OP.    I am poking fun with my Bart/Fazio coment at the concept of Fazio-bashing, BTW.   I don't give Fazio a free pass, he has built way too much banal stuff to sell himself the way he does.

I look forward to the Kiawah trip as I think The Ocean Course is one of the best Modern courses save the range between the 9's.    Cassique and the River Course are two courses I really want to see.  I also look forward to meeting you.  I am not a meanie.  I'm tough on everyone.

[Mike_Cirba]

Mike V@Kiawah,

Thanks for the update on the Golfweek Raters outing!  I'll certainly look forward to coming down and also looking forward to meeting you.

And don't let Bill fool you...he actually loves most Tom Fazio courses....although he's been on a Rees Jones binge lately.  

[David Wigler]

Mike V,

Wow!  You do not have dates yet do you?  I might want to spruce up my Christmas gift to my wife to insure that I make this year’s trip.  I love the Ocean Course and have not played the River or Cassique.  Pete Dye is one of my hero's as well.

Mike Cirba,

What do you make of Barona missing the list?  I feel that Barona is one of the most interesting new designs in years.  Given that it sits in the architectural wasteland known as San Diego, it should highlight even better (Much like why brides always get ugly bridesmaid dresses).  If you put Barona next to Shepard’s Hollow and priced them the same, Shepard’s Hollow would go bankrupt immediately.  I wonder if the problem was that not enough people saw it.  I hope that Golfweek did not have the same problem as I really believe this course would not be out of place in the bottom 3rd of a top 100 modern list.

[Mike_Cirba]

David,

I'm not sure what to make of it as I haven't had the opportunity to play Barona, unfortunately.   I can only make my own assessment based on what I see in the northeast region (i.e. Glen Mills making it over Pine Hill, Blue Heron Pines East, Frog Hollow, Barefoot Resort (Norman) quite a few others), and that is the simple fact that with about 4-500 new courses opening a year, it's almost impossible to come up with any type of reasonably reasonable list.

The logistics and regionalism and number of raters issues are simply too daunting.  

[GeoffreyC]

It's good to be back!

New courses and rating them all suffer at least a bit from the glitz factor and need time to see if the high praise survives.

Has anyone out there played Great River?  I purposly stayed away after someone we all respect here on GCA thought it boring. I will get up there next season but I'd like more commets.  Matt have you been up to Connecticut to see it yet?

[A_Clay_Man]

It seems that the omission of Barona Creek is a blessing to the real golfers, who might live on the south end of the San Andreas fault, and don't need the competition for tee times. And if that is true? Does being ranked imply a overload of the AG?
One last point and that's the category "new". I consider every course I have never been to as new, new to me.

[Tim_Liddy]

Once again, I find information first on golfclubatlas.com.
:)It is great to find out that one of my projects made the top ten list.  What would we do without Golfclubatlas?

[Matt Ward]

GeoffreyC:

I had the pleasure in playing Great River during this past summer and concur with many on GCA that the course, although beautiful in spots, overdoses with bells and whistle features (i.e. waterfall, excessive unnatural mounding, extremely narrow fairway zones that take driver out of your hands, etc.).

The course is nearby to GD HQ so you have to wonder if that didn't help. In my own personal assessment of courses I would not rate it among the ten best upscale courses I played in 2001. I also think the high course rating / slope that's listed for GR is a tad too inflated.

A better bet is Saratoga National -- a Roger Rulewich design just outside of Albany. Kudos to Rulewich and design team in getting a course routed on a piece of land that is filled with wetlands but yet still plays very well and suffers no fools.

Anyone who treks to that area of the country should take in both Saratoga National and if you can squeeze it in get over to Olde Kinderhook which is about 30 minutes south of SN.

Mike Cirba:

Pine Hill and Blue Heron Pines / East deserved a better fate. I'm not saying they both belonged in the top ten of the Upscale category but one of them should have gotten in. I know you think BHP/East is better than Pine Hill. So do a few other GCA regulars although I still like it.

I also concur with our western contributors about the quality of Barona Creek. I played the course in the early part of 01 and it's really well done. Few courses I saw this year have the kind of firm and fast conditions we all want to see and play. Barona Creek being left out may not be in the same kind of "highway robbery" that The Kingsley Club faced but it's definitely a course that should not have been overlooked.

RJ Daley:

I sincerely hope that the fact that KC did not have a clubhouse had no bearing on what was determined. I can say for sure that many raters, if not all, would not consider that element. Nonetheless, the absence of the course is indeed puzzling to me because as I said before Arcadia Bluffs did very well. I'm sure many of the raters who visited one course stopped at the other since they are really close to one another. How raters can vote high for one while not for the other is truly perplexing even if they are in different categories. :-/

What's really interesting in the ratings result is the profusion of courses in the affordable category being located for the most part in "middle America." It's really doubtful that any quality new course of real merit can be built and operated in the huge population centers in the east and west coasts with green fees less than $50 as the category mandates.

[ToddH]

Just a FYI for all the Kingsley Club supporters.  I played New Albany Links (number 9 on the best public courses) two summers ago.  It was open by at least mid July 2000 if not earlier.   So there still may be hope for next year for Kingsley.   As a side note - If you're ever in Columbus, there are probably 10 other public courses better then the New Albany Links.  I wouldn't waste your time.

[GeoffreyC]

Matt

Funny you mention that GD headquarters are near Great River.  They actually have a corporate membership to the course (and Yale too).

[RJ_Daley]

Matt,

I guess it is an economic reality that the $50 limit for new affordable is generally precluded for a serious design effort if it is on either coast or reasonable near any major population center.  Even in the general midwest farm belt, if an entity doesn't have the land available to them in a situation like a farm inheritance, or somehow owned debt free, building a course for under $50 bucks green fee is pretty tough.  I just played one twice the last two reasonable weather days to play that I think ought to get serious look over by raters for 2002 called "The Creeks at Elington" designed by Bob Lohmann.  It is about $45 in season and I think they may have it there artificially low just to get a shot at that category.  I do think that owner converted a paid-up family farm though.  Also, Tobacco Road kept their fees artificially low that first year to get in that category, and as soon as they could had to jack the freight.

One other thing your reply got me thinking about, is the effect when a rater plays two courses in one day for potential evaluation.  If someone played KC first then went to AC the same day, I think that it would be a bit of sensory overload, and the one that wows them last sticks foremost in the sub-conscious to a negative effect of the first one of the day.  What do you think?

Best Wishes,
Dick  <----  

[Hidden_Gem]

Matt - Great Job in providing the early tabulations.  Thanks!

It is amazing that a course like Pine Hill could be left out of  the Top 10, Upscale. I can
only think of this unjustice as the glass being "Half Empty" theory.  Points being lost for:
1. Not conducive for walking. ( Combo of hilly terrain and some distance between holes)
2. SLOW PLAY!!  5 1/2 - 6 hour rounds recorded.
2A. Carts on paths at all times.
3. SLOW Greens. The greens were very slow on numerous occasions, detracting from
the challenge, enjoyment, and intention for how the course was to be played.
4. Practice facility is no World Woods! (What is?) Built as an afterthought?
6. I would not choose to raise a family in the town of Pine Hill.
7. Clubhouse was not completed for most of the year.

Not that these factors should have anything to do with the rating of the course, but they
obviously do come into play?

Mike_Cirba - You stated that you would not rate PH as the #1 Public in New Jersey.
Please advise what you would rate ahead of it? I played Blue Heron East the 1rst week
it opened and enjoyed greatly. Other than the 5 par with the elevated green on the back
that will not accept a short approach shot, I felt it was a fair test. No mention was made
here of Scotland Run which is not far from PH. This course exceeded my expectations
and was a real treat even with the gusty winds at times. Layout, greens, and conditioning
was excellent.

What are the other 3 courses you alluded to that were recently opened and you would
put in front of Glen Mills?  

This injustice to Pine Hills makes me think that this whole rating system is outdated and
needs a major overhaul. I had not even heard of Glen Mills until this evening, and based
on one post here, it does not warrant the accolades it received.

This makes me think about another point, which may warrant the start of a separate post.
I have always compared the rankings of Top 100 between Golf Digest and Golf, and have
"hands down" found the Golf rankings to be more to my liking.

For instance, back in '97 or '99, Doak had his track in Michigan rated in Golf's Top 100.
Unbelievably, Golf Digest did not even list it in their Top 20 or 24 for the entire State of
Michigan that same year.  Talk about disparity!

I have many thoughts about this, but one I like is that each course that qualifies for the
"Best New" category, have in parentheses next to the listing, how many people actually
rated it!

Later!

[John_K]

Not suprised to see Spring Creek Ranch with recognition on the list.  High level operation, excellent conditioning, numerous well-done green complexes, and a good course flow in a nice setting.  Several holes on this Nicklaus course accept the high fade but just as many don't - by my count 5 favor the fade and neither are the finishing holes of the 9s. Also not built around future housing - built for golf.  I would like to see the zoysia fairways play firmer especially around the greens to allow more shot options.  

John K.

[BillV]

To Hidden Gem

Considering Pine Hill for "Top New Public" begs again to the question of just what is your definition of best.

In the case of Pine HIll there are beautiful vistas, really, really nice framing-including the shiny modern skyline of Philadelphia, a city you have just got to love, excellent conditioning, actually first-rate, a few stellar holes some banal ones and some formulaic ones.  It's routing is terrible, nearly abysmally bad on the second nine.  It is not a top 100 course, but probably is good enough to be mentioned for top 10 upscale public.  I played Pine Hill with Mike Cirba and I'll tell you that we rreluctantly arrived at the same conclusion about Pine Hill independently against our hopes and personal wishes for the place to actually be something.

If one goes to Pine Hill and they think that they'll Pine World Woods II, they are going to be disappointed by several grades (WW Pine BArrens does well in spite of its terribly confusing routing and a few holes that are realistically borderline clunkers-from the man who makes no bad or repetitive holess.).  A club house can't improve the course any more than a lap  dancer can if the rater is actually rating the course, and no club house, even a transplanted NoJersey Ba-Da-Bing can make Pine Hill a top 100 golf course for GD. (Can we get a set of Soprano characters for the posters?)

Once again, a single year's list of best "new" is very very  limited by who's visited from a panel and by their Deneuve-Cox-Margaret tastes.

[Mike_Cirba]

Hidden Gem,

You asked what public courses in New Jersey I would place ahead of Pine Hill, and I'd place Twisted Dune (not eligible til next year for ratings), Ballyowen, and Blue Heron Pines East ahead of it, and possibly others.  Still, I was surprised to see it didn't make the list simply due to the publicity surrounding it's opening.

As far as Glen Mills, it's a very good front nine where Bobby Weed designed many classic features and I loved that part of the property for the most part.  The back nine is hampered by the land (between a steep hill and wetlands), and plays very "cramped".  I posted on the course in detail last year ("Is half a loaf better than none?").  

Three high-end public courses I played in the past year that I thought were superior were the aforementioned Twisted Dune, Pine Hill, Blue Heron Pines East, as well as Frog Hollow in Delaware and Barefoot Resort (Greg Norman) in Myrtle Beach.  The latter two will be affected negatively by housing demands, so depending on where they are with development may be suffering in comparison by now.

[A_Clay_Man]

Boy oh boy am I getting bottomline overload  
According to thingy J. Daley A course has a tough time making ends meet at $50/rnd. I find this a bit suspect using just a little math. Let's use the figure of 30,000 rnds/yr as the minimum. (Why would you build a public course where you'd br doing less?) Having had experience from two courses that do over a 100,000 rnds/yr the 30k # seems reasonable and low enough to make my point. 30k X $50= 1.5 mil doesn't it? check my math it's the only premise I usually insert thingy into other thingy on. Now the national maintenence budgets have to be close to half of revenue say 750k, Anyone?
Now where are "things" tight?

And to All you raters who don't walk the course your rating: How do remember anything? I find I can recall evey hole when I walk it, but conversley very few if I ride.  

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