The Calusa Pines Experience (pics)

[Greg Tallman]

Looks very much like World Woods Rolling Oaks

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Owner spent $1M on dynamite? Total construction $16M+. Course opened 10 years ago.

http://www.golfcourseranking.com/courses/21620/florida/naples/34120/calusa_pines_golf_club.html

Prior thread:

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=32419.0

[Carl Nichols]

Not trying to start an inquiry or debate about the club's finances or related issues, just a simple question:  do they have national memberships?

There is only one type of membership, in a sense it is all "national" as it is closed during the summer. I'd say 25-30 or so are locals (Naples full-time) of the 250~ members.

Thanks Patrick. Do you still work there?

[Patrick Hodgdon]

Not trying to start an inquiry or debate about the club's finances or related issues, just a simple question:  do they have national memberships?

There is only one type of membership, in a sense it is all "national" as it is closed during the summer. I'd say 25-30 or so are locals (Naples full-time) of the 250~ members.

Thanks Patrick. Do you still work there?

I do not. I caddied there during college 04-08 and again during the 09/10 season. Back in my hometown of Minneapolis now and this time of year (snow on the ground) is when I miss it most. Lots of great people and golf at CP!

[Michael George]

Questions for those that have played it:

1) What's your favorite hole at CP and why?
2) What's your least favorite hole at CP and why?

Patrick:

(1) #8 is my favorite hole.  First, I love short par 4's and think this one is really great.  The small swale behind the green allows you a chance for recovery, but not much of one.  #11 is by far my favorite par 3 - great Redan with a lot of shot options.  #18 is my favorite par 5 (although I also love #2).  I just like the vast fairway short and to the right of the green.

I have been told that most members love #15 and it is a good hole, but I like more quirk than there.

Most underrated hole for me though is probably #1.  I think it is a really good opening hole.  room off the tee, but the green is challenging.

(2) Least favorite hole is #4.  I don't think the driving area works that well - too narrow to hit driver and too long of a hole to hit utility club off the tee.  If they widened the left part of the fairway, I think it would tempt you to hit driver and would be a much better hole, as the general design of the hole and green complex are both great.

[John Mayhugh]

My favorite is probably the par 3 third hole.  It's a short iron (maybe a 9?) to an elevated green that seems surrounded by waste area, though the sand is only front & left. Really an intimidating looking tee shot, but more forgiving than it appears.

Least favorite is the par 3 16th. Water down the left side and back. Bunkers on left & right narrow the opening in front.  Great spot for disaster, especially if the wind is blowing.

[Patrick Hodgdon]

Thanks for the responses Michael and John.

I definitely love #8 and think it is a great short-4. I've seen some crazy stuff happen on that green for sure.

I am surprised you think #3 is more forgiving than it looks John with the far left and far right portions of the green being false on top of the intimidating tee shot you mentioned. Definitely a great short-3 though.

Personally I love the challenge of the 12th hole. The fairway looks wider than it is, is hard to hit from the top tee because it looks even narrower and you have a better look at the trouble, and the green is extremely hard to hit and hold the ball on with multiple false fronts, not to mention some of the most subtle breaks on the course that lead to many a 3-putt.

As to #4 Michael, I'm guessing you played them from the tee box on the left of the water which was designed as the blue tee but is used as the black tee often. The real black tee is back close to the gold/tips where you have to carry a lot more of the water and the angle is much better. From here driver often is the play unless the wind is really helping.

John, I think the tee shot on #16 which is almost always into a left-to-right hurting wind has got to be one of the hardest on the course. The other one that comes to mind is the extremely underrated approach on #1 which is really quite tough to hit based on the angle and the upside down pringle chip green.

[PThomas]

tis very good...can there be a better course By Mike H and Dana??  none that i am aware of

Devil's Paintbrush -- In my mind the best modern course in Canada.

very possible (I havent played there)..sorry I forgot about our friends to the North!

Often, debated but Erin Hills is worthy of discussion. Perhaps Wisconsin is considered in the North, too.

i'd give the nod to Calusa  over EH

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Thanks for bringing up The Concession. The think it is a better design but CP moved a lot of dirt to create so much more movement to balance them out. They are the cream of a desert for golf know as SW Florida. I might add since the word Experience is used. Both have first class rest rooms. CP uses a slightly softer TP so give them the nod.

[John Mayhugh]

I am surprised you think #3 is more forgiving than it looks John with the far left and far right portions of the green being false on top of the intimidating tee shot you mentioned. Definitely a great short-3 though.

Not phrased very well on my part.  It can be difficult to hit the green, but recovery is possible if you miss in the right spots.  The hole is more playable than it looks, but nothing is really forgiving about the tee shot.

[Andy Troeger]

Have any of you played Fazio's Eagle Point in Wilmington, NC? It reminded me quite a bit of Calusa, especially in the way both were created from fairly flat sites into sites with good movement. I definitely think Calusa reminds me of some of Fazio's better efforts in terms of shaping and look, but I think it plays a bit harder than most Fazio's.

I liked Calusa a lot better than The Concession, which I played on the same trip. Its a better balance of challenge and fun, whereas The Concession was just brutally difficult, although I think it had a fair amount of good holes taken individually. Its just hard to create variety when every hole is hard.

[Michael George]

Played Calusa on Thursday.  The day after I played, the club was having their annual challenge golf event  where the greens are as hard, firm and fast as possible and pins are tucked in difficult spots.  To say that the greens were difficult would be an understatement. There literally was a 10 square foot area where you could hit the ball on every green - maybe 5 sq ft on #3,8,11 and 14.  It was the most difficult round of golf that I have ever played including Oakmont and Oakland Hills. Simply put there was nowhere to miss an approach shot.  I would never want to play it in these conditions everyday but it was quite a challenge and fun for a round.

In general, the green complexes are really good and take many rounds to really learn.  They definitely feel like you are putting on a tabletop and being aggressive can result in a longer putt back.  There are places to miss an approach for every pin where you have an uphill putt or chip that can result in birdie or par.   However,  these areas are usually tight and the greens are definitely for the better player as iron approaches with proper spin are needed to reach many of them.  

I have yet to play Pinehurst #2 but would imagine that the greens are similar. Can anyone compare these greens?  

[Mark Ringsmuth]

Michael,

I have been fortunate to play both courses this year.  Both have greens that are challenging, but I think that they are very different.

Calusa's greens are very fast and your description of a tabletop is apt.  The highest point of Calusa's green complexes is some point off of the green itself and is typically located in the rough.  The greens have a raised collar and elevated ridge or ring around the putting surface.  There is plenty of depth from the fairway on the greens.  Many of the greens cant toward the front or have a significant part of the green surface that does.  For these reasons among others, I think Calusa's greens are more receptive to approach shots and hold balls better. The course also has plenty of greens with false fronts and edges.  Those false sides/edges are like sluces and are created by gaps between mounding on the edge of the green.  Otherwise, the putting surface stops before the severe slopes at the side of the mound.  Calusa's greens are built significantly higher than those at # 2.

Pinehurst's putting surfaces are carried out further than Calusa's.  The greens are extended to where the green complexes drop off precipitously.  On those greens built on flat land, the highest point of the green complex is located at some point within the interior of the green.  The high point of those greens located on uneven terrain is at the point where the green and collar meet.  I haven't completely wrapped my head around what the location of the highest point on the green means.  I suspect that the extension of the edge of the putting surface over the side of the mound and the location of the high point makes it more difficult to keep the ball on the green.  I'm still thinking about that. Also, the deepest point of #2's greens is not front to back as frequently as it at Calusa.  Finally, the collar had not fully grown in when I played last month, so the green was actually higher than the collar by 1/8"-1/4".

Calusa's greens were easier to hold than #2's greens.  #2 offered more options for recovery on those shots that missed the green. Calusa's greens were in better condition and much faster.  Essentially, they are nothing alike.

Hope this helps.

[Ronald Montesano]

Total thread-jack: if you are having a new website built, would you not leave the old one up until the new one is ready?

http://www.hurdzanfry.com/

They opted for the 1999 Web 0.5 approach, which is weird. Where are the spinning GIFs when you need them?