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Sean_A

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Re: Budget for golf club in the UK
« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2011, 03:32:10 AM »
Rough costings for a comfortable top 100 GB&I links (with a history of hosting amateur championship events) with a dormy house operation and a decent bank balance.  The income includes subs, guest/visitor fees, entrance fees, dormy house profit etc

£766,000/$1.225 million

Expenses include course (wages as well), house (including some capital projects), admin and wages and VAT.

£647,000/$1.035 million

Incidentally, the guest/visitor fees/dormy house comprise a considerable 40% of income.    

Ciao
  
New plays planned for 2025: Ludlow, Machrihanish Dunes, Dunaverty and Carradale

Tony_Muldoon

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Re: Budget for golf club in the UK
« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2011, 05:03:13 AM »
Adrian/others


What 'churn' rate for the membership would you expect?


i.e. what is the typical %'tage of members you might expect to  leave/die/etc in a typical year.  Has this gone up recently?


Has been a noticeable shift between categories of membership lately?


I think when people talk about attracting new members there's a tendency to overlook  how many you need to bring in each year,  just to stand still.
2025 Craws Nest Tassie, Carnoustie.

Adrian_Stiff

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Re: Budget for golf club in the UK
« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2011, 05:18:39 AM »
Tony - I think the industry standard is close to 10%. Its getting worse.

My figures are nearly 20%, we lose 200 members per year, this year I have gained 250, but my figures are a bit distorted because we have a £150 membership wherby people pay a £20  green fee for each round.

The ABSOLUTE KEY to keep your membership retention levels up is to ALWAYS HAVE A JOINING FEE. As soon as you drop your joining fee it might be easy in, but its easy out, with no joining fee members dont feel so loyal, the Membership fee becomes more of an annual bulk payment for green fees rather than a belonging. People stay because they have paid a fair amount to join, if they have not paid it or dont need to pay it, it becomes a conveyor belt. It is a viscious circle as clubs jostle and war for other golf clubs members, they offer attractive rates and deals and attract a batch of new members, but the nature of those members is they are easily attracted away to another club that tempts them with a tasty chocolate morsel.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Jon Wiggett

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Re: Budget for golf club in the UK
« Reply #28 on: November 20, 2011, 06:19:17 AM »
Tony - I think the industry standard is close to 10%. Its getting worse.

the Membership fee becomes more of an annual bulk payment for green fees rather than a belonging. People stay because they have paid a fair amount to join, if they have not paid it or dont need to pay it, it becomes a conveyor belt.

Adrian,

this touches up on a point I have made in the past. The culture of belonging to a club is waning. It is partly due to a change in the culture here in Britain. Clubs themselves have not helped matters with the way they treated members and potential members in the halcyon days of the late 80's and 90's. There also seems to be a blind spot in the on the part of the golfing bodies with the home unions and R&A pushing a model that is dying rather than facing the facts and looking at getting more players to start playing and stay playing.

Many players just want to use the course and changing facilities so why build anything more?

Jon

Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Budget for golf club in the UK
« Reply #29 on: November 20, 2011, 06:47:49 AM »
Jon - There is no doubt in my mind the new wave of golfer is very different to ones you and I grew up. Almost everyone now takes their electric trolley on the tee with them or lets it run over the forward tees, had a junior done that in the mid 70s and the secretary seen him he would be hauled in front the committee.
The newer golfers dont care if they get an official handicap (they use their own anyway), they dont use the changing rooms (their valuables are safer in their car) they change (down to underware) in the car park, they want to use a buggy (and they dont like paths). All they are really interested in a game of golf with their mates (they dont want drawn times with other members) they get in their cars afterwards and get back nearer their homes to drink in the pub (drink driving laws) probably watching Sky Sports and the premiership.  They are not all like this but..... many wear cut off shorts and are clad in tattoos....on the plus side most of them are familiar with 'Caddyshack' and they like away days and weekend trips away, but they prefer courses with island greens and plenty of water to the ones we pedestal here. If you pick up the magazines there are some great deals on clubs, clothing, memberships and away days, at some courses you can get a coffee, bacon roll, 18 holes, 2 course meal and 10 minutes with a dancing girl for £20..its hard to compete on price.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2011, 06:49:26 AM by Adrian_Stiff »
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Budget for golf club in the UK
« Reply #30 on: November 20, 2011, 07:24:22 AM »


Sounds just about spot on Adrian :'(

(rant begins here) It is a product of the selfish consumerism that has been practically rammed down our throats by the so called free market that has liberated us all in the last 20 years (rant comes to a close :o). Where have all the community orientated gentle folk gone?

Jon

Niall C

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Re: Budget for golf club in the UK
« Reply #31 on: November 20, 2011, 07:33:45 AM »
Adrian

If you could kindly point me in the direction of that deal I'll away and get my beach shorts ready in anticipation. ;D

The point you and Jon make are all valid. I recently moved from an old fashioned all male club where you had to wear collar and tie to get into certain parts of the clubhouse to a more rural club, old fashioned in its way and certainly old, where you can wear jeans while playing and anywhere in the clubhouse.

The first club admittedly is in a high catchment area but then it has a lot of competition. Its green fees are significantly higher than most nearby clubs with comparable courses and yet to join you need to jump through hoops and not everyone gets in.

The second club by contrast, while having the best course in the area (provided you like links) is scrabbling around to get members and offering various deals to get people in. I can't complain really as I've taken advantage of it. However what do I offer the club ? I've played tons of golf there over the last 8 months but rarely use the clubhouse other than to change my shoes and use the toilet. I've never played in a medal or comp and I've never attended a function of the club. So in that regard I'm not much of a member.

At the first club I played in medals on a regular basis, I had regular games, used the facilities of the club to the full and basically felt part of a club. The key I think was that I joined because my friends were members and I was quickly initiated into the way of things. At the second club that doesn't happen when you've taken advantage of an advertised offer, pitched up without an appointment, paid my £250 and voila instant member.

Niall  

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Budget for golf club in the UK
« Reply #32 on: November 20, 2011, 08:04:56 AM »
Niall,

what has/does your new club and its existing membership done to welcome you. Are you playing in the yearly matchplay comps? And why have you not made the effort to integrate into the club's life? The answer to these questions may help point to why many clubs are struggling to get members to be active in the club's activities instead of being yearly greenfee ticket players. Maybe the examples of Muirfield and Prestwick where I and my friends were really integrated into the club life by the members even though we were only 'daily members' might the ones to look at.

Jon

Duncan Cheslett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Budget for golf club in the UK
« Reply #33 on: November 20, 2011, 08:13:09 AM »

The ABSOLUTE KEY to keep your membership retention levels up is to ALWAYS HAVE A JOINING FEE. As soon as you drop your joining fee it might be easy in, but its easy out, with no joining fee members dont feel so loyal, the Membership fee becomes more of an annual bulk payment for green fees rather than a belonging. People stay because they have paid a fair amount to join, if they have not paid it or dont need to pay it, it becomes a conveyor belt. It is a viscious circle as clubs jostle and war for other golf clubs members, they offer attractive rates and deals and attract a batch of new members, but the nature of those members is they are easily attracted away to another club that tempts them with a tasty chocolate morsel.

Adrian,

I can understand how having a joining fee improves retention levels, but surely it must work against the recruitment of new members. I would guess that only 10% of golf clubs in my area still have joining fees - these being the more elite clubs where membership still has a certain social cachet.  It does not neccessarily follow that these are the best courses!

Newcomers to golf club membership are highly unlikely to choose a club with a joining fee unless the social aspect is as important to them as the golf. I believe that a key to the future success of a golf club is the recruitment and conversion of formally nomadic or occasional players into club members.

This will inevitably mean discarding many of the traditional features of golf clubs - dress codes in the clubhouse, the formal address of 'Mr Captain' etc. These are anachronisms from a byegone age which have little or no relevence to young guys who just want to play some golf.

I have noticed recently just how many of our younger members never venture into the clubhouse, instead heading home immediately after recording their score on the computer. It is now accepted as normal by all but the old brigade who still feel passionately that it is an obligation for all playing companions to buy a round each after a game.

Most guys in their 20's, 30's and 40's with young families are no longer interested in spending time and money in the clubhouse bar after a game of golf. It is politically difficult enough to get time off from family commitments for the golf - never mind boozing afterwards!

I don't believe that 'loyalty' can be bought any more by having a joining fee. Loyalty comes from a desire to remain and belong - not from being blackmailed into staying!

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Budget for golf club in the UK
« Reply #34 on: November 20, 2011, 08:20:46 AM »
Jon

The fact that I haven't played in any comps or attended functions is no fault of the club. I get regular emails with info on everything from whats happening on the course to what functions are coming up. As you know I travel back to Glasgow every weekend so that cuts down opportunities to play in medals and attend weekend functions but then I don't really know anyone at the club. I'm sure that would quickly change if I stayed up here weekends. The key however I have joined a club where I don't know anyone other than some members through work so the social element isn't there to start with.

As an aside, I would much rather play the course up here rather than the course at the other club but the other club is a better "club" without question in my mind.

Niall

Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Budget for golf club in the UK
« Reply #35 on: November 20, 2011, 08:52:16 AM »
Duncan I pretty much agree with you although I think 'blackmailed' is a bit too strong. The horse has bolted in regards to joining fees, the clubs that have dropped them will take a long time to repair the loyalty damage if it can be done at all. It is not an easy situation when you need members and the other clubs have zeroed their joining fees,a lot depends on what other clubs have done in the area and if they are the better courses and those courses offer better value its not easy. Its become very competitive because of the rising costs to maintain the club/course, the compliance associated with PAT testing annually, waste chemical removal charges, the licence to put the radio on, SKY TV fees, etc etc, some chemicals can no longer be used because of health and safety and the newer alternatives and twice the price and half as effective. The over supply of golf courses coupled with a difficult economy and together with the fact it takes so long to play a round of golf makes it very hard to operate a golf course. The VAT situation with newer clubs against the older clubs who are VAT exempt of their golf subscriptions makes it even more difficult to trade fairly.... The clubs grab desperately at every drop of income, it is understandable why although they are stealing from themselves and lining the pockets of PGA CITY, GROUPON, 2-4-1 SCHEMES. Golf Clubs have allowed cheap routes from people to golf, the seeds they have sown with silly deals they reap when they lose their members. You are right when you talk about the need to convert nomadic golfers into the fold, however its often a losing battle and as subscription fees rise and the member looks at how many rounds he has played and does the maths, very often they hop the other way.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2011, 08:57:57 AM by Adrian_Stiff »
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Budget for golf club in the UK
« Reply #36 on: November 20, 2011, 12:21:22 PM »
Niall,


Though I know your situation with travelling at the weekends my question was not why don’t you participate but more have the club encouraged you to participate?

Adrian,

it is not easy running a golf course but one key thing is to steer the expectations of the players. I agree that the 2-4-1 stuff is stupid as is reduced fees in the winter at most courses. it would make more sense for most to almost close down and spare costs through the winter. Most clubs make their profit in summer and a loss in winter.

Jon

Duncan Cheslett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Budget for golf club in the UK
« Reply #37 on: November 20, 2011, 12:27:06 PM »
Golf Clubs have allowed cheap routes from people to golf, the seeds they have sown with silly deals they reap when they lose their members. You are right when you talk about the need to convert nomadic golfers into the fold, however its often a losing battle and as subscription fees rise and the member looks at how many rounds he has played and does the maths, very often they hop the other way.

I can see a lot of merit in your model of a low membership fee and then a payment of say £10 per round. This would appeal to many nomadic players who have little wish to play the same course every week but who like the idea of having a 'home' club wheer they can get a proper handicap etc.

I have started to play almost as much away from my home course as on it. From a purely financial point of view full club membership makes little sense for me but the 'halfway house' solution that you have certainly would. Do you see it being a viable proposition for all clubs?

I guess the next step for clubs would be to do all they can to retain a small loyal membership and then to promote themselves as a 'pay and play' course...
« Last Edit: November 20, 2011, 01:01:53 PM by Duncan Cheslett »

Mark_Rowlinson

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Re: Budget for golf club in the UK
« Reply #38 on: November 20, 2011, 01:16:18 PM »
Duncan, You're new to the golf scene around Manchester and what you see today is something different at almost every club. But thirty years ago every single club had a full membership, there was very little municipal provision (still true) and pay-and-play operations had not appeared on the scene. But when they did appear, driven partly by farmers' need to diversify and also by the buoyant corporate golf market, many traditional clubs found members leaving in droves. The members who left were those who played only a few rounds per year and realised that they were paying £100 a round for their golf. Suddenly they could go to Styal, Antrobus, Heyrose and pay a greenfee. They had adequate facilities should you want a beer afterwards and there were perfectly decent changing facilities. You didn't have to queue for hours at Altrincham Muni or Heaton Park and very likely take 5 hours or more for your round. Drink-driving laws also ensured that few members dropped in for a beer or a gin on their way home for work. Retaining a catering operation became a big problem. Clubs such as Delamere Forest, which is never going to be on the way home for anybody(!), had learned how to cope with that aspect in the inter-war years.

But what you get now is a situation in which there is a great choice, as you discovered when you were looking to join a club. There are still the traditional clubs such as Wilmslow, Prestbury, Delamere, Sandiway, Stockport which have retained their ethos while actually changing quite subtly and quicker than you might imagine. They have full memberships but given natural wastage ut would be relatively simple to join - if you know enough members and can afford not far short of £4,000 for your first year's membership. The joining fee at Wilmslow, incidentally, is not used as 'income', being ring-fenced for development.

If you think these are stodgy clubs, but you have money, you can walk into Mere, Portal, Carden Park or Mottram Hall and indulge in the country club-style life.

As you know most Manchester suburban clubs are crying out for new members. Rumours abound as to which of them will survive or crumble. You can get some great deals. The clubs will get round the introduction policy if you don't know anybody and they'll tailor a membership package that's right for you. A friend of mine is the Organist and Director of Music at Manchester Cathedral. He can't play when most others can, but he got a weekday package tailored for him at Chorlton and he's able to go down most mornings in the lighter months at dawn to play a few holes before chorister practice. He's a happy bunny. He has Friday morning free and has always been invited to join others for a social round. It's a friendly place.

Then there are the many different packages at the proprietary clubs/courses with various annual subs and related green fees according to how much and when you want to play. It seems to work at Styal which always has a buzz about it, even if the course is a bit ordinary even for me!

I'll not tell you exactly how much Wilmslow costs to run per year, but its annual income and outgoings are significantly under a million, which I think is about on a par with similar clubs around here. We have 312 full male members and 117 full lady members. With juniors, non-playing members, country members, life members, intermediate members etc there are 597 males and 171 females. We get anywhere between 75 and 100 competitors each week for the men's Saturday competition, more for the board events. The ladies turn out in considerable numbers on Wednesdays and there's always a good turn out of mixed pairs on a Sunday afternoon, maybe 40 couples in the summer. There are a few days per year on which the course is unavailable because of large visiting societies, but they are only a few. When we host an important event such as county championships we are very generously given courtesy of the course at many local clubs, including Royal Liverpool. We do the same for them.

There is a big programme of course refurbishment under way at the moment. The Steward, Simon Ward, is North-West Steward of the Year and our Professional, Matthew Gillingham, has been voted Professional of the Year at a big PGA event at Wentworth and also runner up as Teaching Professional of the Year. His assistant, Sam, came second in the Assistant of the Year category and has, not surprisingly, already got his first Senior post.

Duncan Cheslett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Budget for golf club in the UK
« Reply #39 on: November 20, 2011, 01:59:56 PM »
There are still the traditional clubs such as Wilmslow, Prestbury, Delamere, Sandiway, Stockport which have retained their ethos while actually changing quite subtly and quicker than you might imagine. They have full memberships but given natural wastage ut would be relatively simple to join - if you know enough members and can afford not far short of £4,000 for your first year's membership.

That's the point - the kind of new golfers and converted nomads that clubs need in order to survive into the future are not going to pay four grand to join a club.

Instead they are either going to remain nomads or society golfers or they are going to join a perfectly good club with a good course such as Reddish Vale, North Manchester, or Cavendish where the first year's golf costs well under £1000.

The clubs you mention will probably get away with charging a joining fee for reasons other than the golf on offer. The rest can forget about joining fees for the forseeable future - if there is one!


« Last Edit: November 20, 2011, 02:03:39 PM by Duncan Cheslett »

Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Budget for golf club in the UK
« Reply #40 on: November 21, 2011, 07:35:56 AM »

[/quote]

I can see a lot of merit in your model of a low membership fee and then a payment of say £10 per round. This would appeal to many nomadic players who have little wish to play the same course every week but who like the idea of having a 'home' club wheer they can get a proper handicap etc.

I have started to play almost as much away from my home course as on it. From a purely financial point of view full club membership makes little sense for me but the 'halfway house' solution that you have certainly would. Do you see it being a viable proposition for all clubs?

I guess the next step for clubs would be to do all they can to retain a small loyal membership and then to promote themselves as a 'pay and play' course...
[/quote]Duncan there are plusses and minusess for the low membership + £10 type schemes. I dont think it will work everywhere. Some nomadic golfers, (Sean is one) just like to play different courses, Sean will contribute as much in green fees as a £1000 per year member, he just speads his money between 30 different clubs. There is no doubt some people will only join these £150 schemes and cant see value in paying £1000 per year. The problem is if a standard club did it tommorow a big percentage of the clubs membership would opt for this plan straight away, the problem is your members that play 40+ times dont do it and your -20s do it. The greater volume of play does not yield much financially for the rounds, in raw terms at most clubs you MUST average £25 per round so its how you get there which is important. If you have 40 people playing £750 per year and that 40 are playing 100 rounds per year, then it really knocks a hole in your stats. I think if a club did this they may end up with less income (certainly initially), it takes a lot more admin as well and you need a system to catch the £10 payers. so its not all gold.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Budget for golf club in the UK
« Reply #41 on: November 21, 2011, 01:17:42 PM »
Niall,


Though I know your situation with travelling at the weekends my question was not why don’t you participate but more have the club encouraged you to participate?




Jon

Short of offering to pick my up at my house and deliver me to the course, I don't think the club could offer any more. The fact is I don't have regular playing partners and haven't gone out my way to find any. I'm perfectly happy with that but I am conscious that I'm not adding anything to the "club" other than a green fee.

Its the difference in being a club and being a golf facility. I've joined a golf facility, and I think thats what clubs will end up like if they have to take in members willy nilly.

Niall

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Budget for golf club in the UK
« Reply #42 on: November 21, 2011, 03:04:22 PM »
Adrian, the ironic thing is that "catching" the £10 daily top up fee means I have to visit the clubhouse at least to pay for that. The friendly greeting makes it easier to go in for a tea after the round and I’m more likely to meet new people while queing to pay my fee.  It’s not perfect but it does work.

Neil is the owner of my home club. He’s outspoken and he drives some members nuts, but his club is thriving and some of the ‘stories’ I’m hearing about GCA favs are downright scary.

http://www.golfclubmanagement.net/2011/11/neil-sjoberg-all-golf-clubs-would-thrive-if-there-was-change-at-the-top/


Re the title of this thread.  It’s a very tight 18 holes. 2.5 green staff!  Playable all year.
2025 Craws Nest Tassie, Carnoustie.

Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Budget for golf club in the UK
« Reply #43 on: November 21, 2011, 03:50:31 PM »
Tony - I dont know if you read my posts but Neil and I obviously speak the same language.... People join a golf club to play golf..Thats been my saying since 1984.

A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Budget for golf club in the UK
« Reply #44 on: November 21, 2011, 06:30:44 PM »
Tony - I dont know if you read my posts but Neil and I obviously speak the same language.... People join a golf club to play golf..Thats been my saying since 1984.



Adrian,

People join a facility to use it.
People join a club to be part of it.

The questions are

what does the golfing facility/club want to be?
what does the golfer want to use/have?

Jon

Jon

Ulrich Mayring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Budget for golf club in the UK
« Reply #45 on: November 22, 2011, 03:56:27 AM »
While this thread is about the UK, I might offer what is being done in Germany to deal with "membership models" vs. "nomadic models". In Germany everyone has to have an official handicap - about 95% of the courses don't let guests play without one. So that makes sure that everyone is a member of a German golf club (as opposed to some offshore membership model or no membership at all).

When that problem was "solved", next came the country member situation: people become a member at a far away club for very little money and never play there. Instead, they want to pay greenfees at the courses where they live. So on the official German handicap card a logo was introduced that told everyone about your membership status: whether you live locally to your club and whether you have an unrestricted membership (as opposed to one where you can only play weekdays or have to pay a supplement for every round).

So, a guest walks in, the German golf secretary will look at the logo or scan the card and know everything. Meaning that in many clubs you pay a premium on top of your greenfee, unless you are "local" and "unrestricted" (i. e. full paying member somewhere). Most clubs that participate in this system charge about 30-50% extra. My home club, which is a commercial group, not member-owned, charges 50% on week-ends (100 Euro instead of 70).

I cannot testify to the degree of success this scheme has, but one thing is for sure: even if there is only a small sur-charge, people feel like 2nd class citizens. That kind of "forces" many into a membership, which they wouldn't otherwise entertain.

Ulrich
« Last Edit: November 22, 2011, 03:58:46 AM by Ulrich Mayring »
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Budget for golf club in the UK
« Reply #46 on: November 22, 2011, 04:29:31 AM »
Ulrich

That is an interesting approach to visitors' fees.  It seems like it would take some sort of collusion on the part of clubs to "enforce" the increased rates for non/country members or a healthy golf economy.  In any case, remind me not to visit Germany for golf - the 2nd class citizenship backed up by "revealing" identity cards is a step too far for my liking.   

Ciao   
New plays planned for 2025: Ludlow, Machrihanish Dunes, Dunaverty and Carradale

Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Budget for golf club in the UK
« Reply #47 on: November 22, 2011, 04:34:10 AM »
Adrian,

People join a facility to use it.
People join a club to be part of it.

The questions are

what does the golfing facility/club want to be?
what does the golfer want to use/have?

Jon

Jon
[/quote]ONLY 30% use the clubhouse, so 70% are absolutely JUST GOLF. Thats the fundamental mistake many make. 70% have no intrest in teams, drinks, competitions or the being part, time after time club committees vote with their thoughts not the main pattern.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Budget for golf club in the UK
« Reply #48 on: November 22, 2011, 05:10:28 AM »
Adrian,

Your answer of 70% not using/interested in clubhouse facilities then begs the question why build one. Surely a toilet block would suffice.

Ulrich,

You are correct to flag up the German example. It is a solution that works well in Germany where most people have no problem being coerced into conforming to a system. I suspect if you were to try this here in Britain it would end in a series of high profile anti discrimination court cases.

Jon

Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Budget for golf club in the UK
« Reply #49 on: November 22, 2011, 05:58:16 AM »
Jon - I think most new builds DO just need a large pro-shoppy cum servery for a beer, hot drinks, pies, sandwiches and a toilet facilty, the secret is to man it with 1 person if you can. Most clubhouses are already there ofcourse and most clubhouses are a burden.

It would be interesting to do a survey how many different players competed in competitions in any one year, MY GUESS would be 300 here, and how many members who have handicaps are now inactive. The active/inactive idea was crazy, having a handicap is a way to retain a member, taking his handicap away is another reason he might GO NOMAD.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com