Ballyneal in foreclosure

[Michael Underwood]

Again, I know nothing of BN but if I was the owner I would say "screw the membership route" and follow the Bandon model.   

Certainly part of this statement is correct. Perhaps more parts than one.

No doubt, this is partially a very true statement!  As has been mentioned before most of you have no idea what you are talking about and most of the members are not willing to bring out the dirty laundry.  This is neither the time or place.

[Dan Herrmann]

Michael - your point is well taken.  Thanks.

[John_Cullum]

I would wager that most who think they know what's going on don't

[Tim Martin]

In the case of Ballyneal, here is what has changed

- A high profile bankruptcy

There was no bankruptcy.

Perhaps if there had been, some of the "members who supported the club financially" would have gotten something; although it's doubtful

In bankruptcy the members who certainly would be classified as unsecured creditors would have received nothing.

[Mike Sweeney]

It would not be proper to air them in a public forum and definitely not in the spirit of what Ran had in mind with this discussion group.

Daryl,

Please see the following:

1. Lido Golf Club - now a row of condominiums in Long Beach, NY.

2. Timber Point - now 27 holes on top of the original 18 on the south shore of Long Island.

3. Hollywood GC - still a great course but please see the aerial in the Men's Grill of what was there.

4. Lekarica - Stiles and Van Kleek that is now a $25 public course.

5. Yale Golf Course - Which has been rescued.

Filled in bunkers, shrinking greens, and planting of trees. Should we simply wait to see the great architecture disappear?

Ballyneal had a membership that supported golf at its very finest. Even Melvyn would approve!  

The Founding Members put in $5.0 million, the current owner put in $5.0 million +. The Founding Members currently own 0.00% of the equity and 0.00% of the debt. The current owner, brother-in-law, put in $5.0+ million and owns 100%. Let's ignore the regular members for this conversation.

Did I miss anything?

Oh right, the 99 year lease on the housing. I have to admit, I did not understand that one.

Forgot that they announced less than one year ago that they were building a second 18 hole course. Less than 12 months later, it is being purchased in state court?

My wife recently received a check for $5000 for a club that her parents were "founding members" of in the 1950's. The estate made $0.00 on that investment 50+ years later and that is a good thing.

Please feel free to correct any of the above.

[JC Jones]

I think the best part of this thread is that the total number of people on the planet who might be remotely interested, including everyone who has ever had a financial interest in the place, might equal 350.  That's what made Jud's comment yesterday so damn funny.  If there was ever an indication of GCA.com myopia (pun intended), this is it.

Golf courses are closing every day, this isn't news.  Businesses close every day, this isn't news.  Ballyneal is, was and will always be a business.  I've seen less of an emotional breakdown from people who worked for GM for 30+ years that watched their pension evaporate while the union and the secured lenders were fighting over the carcass.

[Craig Van Egmond]

Yep, golf courses fail all the time.. how many of them were #6 on the Golfweek top 100 modern courses? 

[John_Cullum]

4. Lekarica - Stiles and Van Kleek that is now a $25 public course.

You overpaid

[JC Jones]

Yep, golf courses fail all the time.. how many of them were #6 on the Golfweek top 100 modern courses?  

That'd be relevant if a majority of Brad's panel wasn't also a member of GCA.com.

Do me a favor, head down to your local public track or if it is cold where you are, your local golf retail shop and ask everyone you see what their thoughts are on the Ballyneal situation.  Let me know what you find out.

edit: I just went to golfwrx.com and checked their forums.  I looked at the first two pages of their section on courses and the number of threads about Ballyneal = 0.

[SB]

Yep, golf courses fail all the time.. how many of them were #6 on the Golfweek top 100 modern courses? 

2 in the top 10 and 4 in the top 20.

[Don_Mahaffey]

JC,
For the life of me I don't get why you say something like that.

A young man lost his life in my little TX town not long ago. It was devastating to those of us close to him. You didn't hear about it, didn't know him or his family, so its not news to you, which is fine, happens all the time all around the world. But I knew him very well, and it was very much news to me and my family, whether the rest of the world cared or not.

What is happening at Ballyneal  may not be national news, but it matters to some people, and to dismiss it because you don't care doesn't make you smarter.

[Greg Chambers]

I think the best part of this thread is that the total number of people on the planet who might be remotely interested, including everyone who has ever had a financial interest in the place, might equal 350.  That's what made Jud's comment yesterday so damn funny.  If there was ever an indication of GCA.com myopia (pun intended), this is it.

Golf courses are closing every day, this isn't news.  Businesses close every day, this isn't news.  Ballyneal is, was and will always be a business.  I've seen less of an emotional breakdown from people who worked for GM for 30+ years that watched their pension evaporate while the union and the secured lenders were fighting over the carcass.

And yet, some four long months ago, you were the person that started this thread...

[Mike Sweeney]

What is happening at Ballyneal  may not be national news, but it matters to some people, and to dismiss it because you don't care doesn't make you smarter.

Confirming what Don said, the great thing about the internet and this website is you can find a small group of people that are passionate about very narrow niche topics.

I don't subscribe to Golf Digest anymore and I don't watch CNN, but I do send in my contribution here.

And yet, some four long months ago, you were the person that started this thread...

Wow, I am soooooo disappointed in myself that I did not pick up on that one first. Nicely done Greg!

[JC Jones]

JC,
For the life of me I don't get why you say something like that.

A young man lost his life in my little TX town not long ago. It was devastating to those of us close to him. You didn't hear about it, didn't know him or his family, so its not news to you, which is fine, happens all the time all around the world. But I knew him very well, and it was very much news to me and my family, whether the rest of the world cared or not.

What is happening at Ballyneal  may not be national news, but it matters to some people, and to dismiss it because you don't care doesn't make you smarter.

Nothing hammers my point home more than drawing an analogy to the death of a human being.

[John_Cullum]

There seems to be an overwhelming presumption that John Curlander is going to ruin Ballyneal. Why do you people feel that way? Why is not possible  to accept that he is going to save the place from returning to cow pasture? The best days of Ballyneal may be just around the corner.

[JC Jones]

I think the best part of this thread is that the total number of people on the planet who might be remotely interested, including everyone who has ever had a financial interest in the place, might equal 350.  That's what made Jud's comment yesterday so damn funny.  If there was ever an indication of GCA.com myopia (pun intended), this is it.

Golf courses are closing every day, this isn't news.  Businesses close every day, this isn't news.  Ballyneal is, was and will always be a business.  I've seen less of an emotional breakdown from people who worked for GM for 30+ years that watched their pension evaporate while the union and the secured lenders were fighting over the carcass.

And yet, some four long months ago, you were the person that started this thread...

Big disconnect between my original post and the ensuing 18 pages

[jeffwarne]

JC,
For the life of me I don't get why you say something like that.

A young man lost his life in my little TX town not long ago. It was devastating to those of us close to him. You didn't hear about it, didn't know him or his family, so its not news to you, which is fine, happens all the time all around the world. But I knew him very well, and it was very much news to me and my family, whether the rest of the world cared or not.

What is happening at Ballyneal  may not be national news, but it matters to some people, and to dismiss it because you don't care doesn't make you smarter.

Nothing hammers my point home more than drawing an analogy to the death of a human being.

What IS your point?

[JC Jones]

And yet, some four long months ago, you were the person that started this thread...

Wow, I am soooooo disappointed in myself that I did not pick up on that one first. Nicely done Greg!

As tall as you are it surprises me that it would be over your head.

[JC Jones]

What IS your point?

Proportionality

[Don_Mahaffey]

JC,
Its about loss.
For you no loss, so you mock.
Not all that funny to those feeling the pain.

[Greg Chambers]

I think the best part of this thread is that the total number of people on the planet who might be remotely interested, including everyone who has ever had a financial interest in the place, might equal 350.  That's what made Jud's comment yesterday so damn funny.  If there was ever an indication of GCA.com myopia (pun intended), this is it.

Golf courses are closing every day, this isn't news.  Businesses close every day, this isn't news.  Ballyneal is, was and will always be a business.  I've seen less of an emotional breakdown from people who worked for GM for 30+ years that watched their pension evaporate while the union and the secured lenders were fighting over the carcass.

And yet, some four long months ago, you were the person that started this thread...

Big disconnect between my original post and the ensuing 18 pages

Well, you started the thread for a reason...and you know how passionate about the place people are on here...I'm not sure what exactly you expected to happen...

[JC Jones]

JC,
Its about loss.
For you no loss, so you mock.
Not all that funny to those feeling the pain.

Don,

Get a grip.  How many people on this thread "suffered a loss"?  Half dozen?  Forgive me for not making a financial hiccup for a bunch of rich people akin to a kid dying.

Death is loss.  $50k to rich people who can afford a $50k membership isn't on that level.

[Mike Sweeney]

JC,
Its about loss.
For you no loss, so you mock.
Not all that funny to those feeling the pain.

Don,

Get a grip.  How many people on this thread "suffered a loss"?  Half dozen?  Forgive me for not making a financial hiccup for a bunch of rich people akin to a kid dying.

Death is loss.  $50k to rich people who can afford a $50k membership isn't on that level.

JC,

The 20 Founding Members lost $250,000 each. They have been advised by their attorney to not comment. That does not mean they are not feeling pain. Sure for some it is not a big deal, but certainly not all.

[Ben Sims]

JC,

I've asked this before of you, I'll ask again.  What's your angle?  What's your point?  I don't understand why you're so mad.  Your passion on this and other threads makes no sense to me.  Quit stirring dog piles with a stick because it makes it stink more.  What good does that serve?  

[JC Jones]

JC,

The 20 Founding Members lost $250,000 each. They have been advised by their attorney to not comment. That does not mean they are not feeling pain. Sure for some it is not a big deal, but certainly not all.

I'm concerned about your reading comprehension.

They made a business decision and lost money.  I agree, that really sucks.  But for a couple hundred people with no skin in the game to meltdown over it on an internet message board and act as if someone died is a bit over the top, no?  No one is disputing it's noteworthiness.