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Ally Mcintosh

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The 7th hole at Rosapenna Old in Donegal
« on: November 14, 2011, 09:58:55 AM »
It was good to get up to Rosapenna recently and see the Doak / Iverson greens on the front nine of the Old course for myself... A lovely set of greens if perhaps a little too consistent in style if I may be so bold... A really varied course which I loved...

I have a question... The 7th is a stand out hole for many and there are two green sites (see photo below)... What is the history of these?... The left one seems a definite new creation but the right one also seems to have been reworked... Is the left one to replace the right (we played to the latter)... I presume the right was the original... Is one permanent, one temporary?

Any insight would be welcome... Which do you prefer?


Rosapenna OT 7th Tee shot Nick 16th Sept 2011 by Ally McIntosh, on Flickr

Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The 7th hole at Rosapenna Old in Donegal
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2011, 04:43:07 PM »
Ally,

I was up there in July and walked the Strand nine (now part of OTM course). I spent some time discussing both courses and the history of Rosapenna with John and Frank Casey Jnr. (sons of Frank Casey Snr. owner of Rosapenna) We discussed quite a lot so we didn't go into too much detail on any specific topic, but I was very keen to ask what work Eddie Hackett had done there.

I am just writing what I remember from our discussion, so it's possible that I may have picked things up a little wrong.

In the early 1990s, Eddie Hackett was brought in to plan seven holes on the clubhouse side of the road, that would tie in with the existing 10 holes that were already on that side of the road. He began with his first hole in the general direction of the existing 1st hole on the SH course; his green was short and a bit to the left I believe. His second followed part of the existing 2nd (SH), but dog-legged right instead of left. His 3rd hole was a par three across the existing 3rd hole on SH towards an area close to the present 15th tee (SH). His 4th hole was roughly along the routing of the existing 15th (SH).

Still with me?

Now we come to the par three 7th on the OTM course. The tee is very close to the 15th green (SH). This was Hackett's 5th hole and was played to the green on the right. The 6th hole was a long par 5. The tee was about 50 yards in front of the present 6th tee (OTM), and the hole played down the 5th fairway and dog-legged left just in front of the 4th tee, across the approach to the 3rd green, and then across the present 8th (OTM) fairway to a green tucked into the left side of the 8th fairway. If you recall the 3 fairway bunkers on the mound (about 70 yds from the present 8th green), well, the green was just left of these. The 7th hole then played along the present 9th (OTM) to a green about 50 yds short of the present 9th green. The plan was to then play the old 1st hole (would have been the 8th) on the other side of the present clubhouse, and finish up with the present 18th (OTM).

Eddie Hackett died in 1996, and some of the holes I described above (par 5 6th, par 4 7th) do not exist on the 1995 OSI maps, but are present on the 2000 OSI maps, so perhaps Pat Ruddy/Green's Staff completed these. I would rather not speculate.

If any of the above is incorrect, I will correct it immediately.

I'm not sure what the plan is for the green on the right, but I assume they will move to the left green when it has grown in sufficiently.

I prefer the green on the right. I think it's a better looking hole and I like the little plateau short and the hill to the left. The left green may be a more interesting green, but the setting is not as dramatic, and the large pit in front isn't in play (mostly from a visual aspect, as you'd need to duff it, for it to be in play) to the same extent. From an architectual point of view, the right green will look out of place, when all the Doak et al. greens are incorporated into the layout.

It would be good to hear Tom's thoughts on why a second green was built.

Did you play the temporary or new green at the 6th?
« Last Edit: November 14, 2011, 04:49:04 PM by Donal OCeallaigh »

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The 7th hole at Rosapenna Old in Donegal
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2011, 03:48:40 AM »
Donal,

Wonderful!... Everything you state makes sense... There is a new green built on the 15th at Sandy Hills also which slots in to your timeline... I spotted where the old green was on 9 OTM... We played to the new green on 6...

I didn't realise Eddie Hackett had played such a big role... I always belived his involvement never came to fruition and that the Strand nine was all Pat Ruddy with greens reworked by Renaissance.... I guess it mostly was in the end with the current routing...

As for the 7th, the new site is more playable and I'm sure plays as a better hole... The old green is very tabletop and much more penal for it... However, the backing of the mountain and the fronting of the pit with the open sand scar makes for a singularly beautiful hole and I am not convinced that reducing this visual impact for the sake of playability is necessarily an improvement...

I really enjoyed this course though... Along with Portsalon, they provided the most variety on my trip I thought...

Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The 7th hole at Rosapenna Old in Donegal
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2011, 04:08:14 AM »
Donal,

Wonderful!... Everything you state makes sense... There is a new green built on the 15th at Sandy Hills also which slots in to your timeline... I spotted where the old green was on 9 OTM... We played to the new green on 6...

I didn't realise Eddie Hackett had played such a big role... I always belived his involvement never came to fruition and that the Strand nine was all Pat Ruddy with greens reworked by Renaissance.... I guess it mostly was in the end with the current routing...

As for the 7th, the new site is more playable and I'm sure plays as a better hole... The old green is very tabletop and much more penal for it... However, the backing of the mountain and the fronting of the pit with the open sand scar makes for a singularly beautiful hole and I am not convinced that reducing this visual impact for the sake of playability is necessarily an improvement...

I really enjoyed this course though... Along with Portsalon, they provided the most variety on my trip I thought...

Ally,

At first I thought the 15th green (SH) was originally in a different position, but if you look at the position of the green in the OSI 1995 map, you'll see it's in the same position as in 2005. It appears that it was brought back down the fairway (see 2000 OSI map) to allow for the re-building of the 15th green (2000 and 2005 OSI maps).

I believe the Strand routing is nearly all Pat Ruddy's work. Afterwards, Renaissance did away with the original 5th green on the Strand nine. You can see it in the 2005 OSI map. They brought it back (and moved it left) about 100 yds and turned the 5th into a par 4. The 6th then became a longer par 4. I don't know who was responsible for pushing the 9th green back the 50 or so yds.