[PThomas]

#8 Par 3. 185 yards.

The 8th hole is a very pretty par 3 tucked in the trees.  It is very well bunkered on the front, left and right.  The green is rather narrow and the shot plays a tad shorter than the yardage.  This hole does look very nice to the eye but isn't my favorite due to the "manufactured" look to it.

From the tee

ugh...dreadful

Dreadful? Seriously?

in terms of fitting in with the look of the rest of the green complexes there, yes

[jonathan_becker]

Thanks for these, Bill.  It's been so long since I've been down there to play that it's nice to see it again. 

I don't remember the bunkering on 8 looking like that.  In my mind, both bunkers were more rounded and not as irregular in regards to the edges.  However, it's been over 10 years for me, so they probably have changed.

[RDecker]

It is my understanding that every year the tour players vote this course the best conditioned on tour.  wonder if Jack has ever
petitioned for a major to be played here?

[Matt Bosela]

Great photos Bill.

I had the pleasure of playing MV twice in the summer and took a boatload of pics.  I always intended to post a tour of my own but I've simply been too busy.

Perhaps I'll post a few shots here to help fill in any blanks, with your blessing of course...

[Bill McKinley]

#12 Par 3.  184 yards.

The 12th hole is a beautiful par 3 modelled after the 12th at Augusta.  There are obviously some minor differences but the main difference is the yardage.  Augusta's famed 12th is 155 yards tipped out, but at least half the time during the tournament it plays less than that.  From 184 yards, the 12th green at Muirfield Village is a very tough target to hit and hold.  A beautiful Nicklaus high fade would have been perfect for the back right hole location during the day we played.

All in all it's a very pretty hole in a pretty setting and a tough shot for any player to get close due to the green being so narrow from front to back.  I would have liked to have played it from the member tee at about 160.  I think the hole is more suited to play from that length, just as the 12th at Augusta remains one of the hardest short par 3s on the PGA Tour in any given year.

This is taken from the back tee zoomed in a little bit.  Our caddie's comment was don't even think of going after that pin!


From the walking path to the left of the green.  You can see how narrow the green is.  You know you don't want to be short, but long is almost worse.


From behind the green looking back at the tee

[Bill McKinley]

#13 Par 4. 455 yards.

Tucked way back against the back of the property is the 13th tee.  Caddies get a nice breather as they can send their players off to finish the 12th with drivers in hand for the tee shot on 13.  Then you meet back up with them in the 13th fairway.  Anywho, the tee shot on 13 is not elevated so you're playing the full yardage on this one.  It's best to come in from the right side of the fairway to open up the green.  The approach is a little downhill into a bit of a redan style green.  I would imagine the front left hole location that we had would be very difficult under firm conditions.

Taken from the fairway about 150 out.  Joe with the photobomb..


From behind the green.  This is a very good par 4 that probably gets lost in the shuffle sandwiched between a bunch of really good holes on the 2nd 9.

[Matthew Rose]

I have found the Memorial to be one of my favorite events to watch on a yearly basis, purely because of the course. It is truly a wonderful display of eye-candy. #12 has always been particularly aesthetically pleasing to me.

[Bill McKinley]

RDecker,

I don't know the specifics but I'm sure Jack would love to have a PGA or US Open at MVGC.  They hosted the US Am in 1992 and the Solheim Cup in 1998.  Also, they're going to host the President's Cup in 2013.  But, I'm not sure how they would workt the tour schedule if they ended up getting a PGA.

[Bill McKinley]

Great photos Bill.

I had the pleasure of playing MV twice in the summer and took a boatload of pics.  I always intended to post a tour of my own but I've simply been too busy.

Perhaps I'll post a few shots here to help fill in any blanks, with your blessing of course...

Matt,

That would be great if you wanted to fill the blanks, or just put in some of your favs.
Thanks,
Bill

[Bill McKinley]

#14 Par 4.  363 yards.

The shortest par 4 at Muirfield Village by about 40 yards, but it may be the best.  Noted as one of the 100 Greatest holes in golf, this par 4 is all about strategy and options.  It can be played a little shorter and give the bombers the temptation of going for the green, but fankly that is quite a difficult shot with the long narrow green and a pond on right.  But, if you are a mear mortal, you'll try to hit your drive to the left side of the fairway for the best angle into the green.  There is a creek that runs down the left side and cuts across the fairway at about 70 yards from the green.  It's a fairly easy tee shot to hit the fairway, but the key is putting it in the correct side of the fairway in order to set up your approach.  I think 14 is a really good hole, maybe the best par 4 on the course, but I would stop short of calling it one of the 100 Greatest Holes.  Of course, I would love to play it again and again before I really truely say that with any conviction.

From the tee...
 

From about 110 yards.  I was lucky enough to place my tee shot well and have a pretty straight forward wedge to the green, but a back right hole location would make for a very difficult shot, no matter where you put your tee shot, no wonder they always put the hole there on Sunday at the Memorial...


From just in front of the green missing left in the bunker is no bargin either, with the pond looming just off the green


From behind the green. You can see why the back right hole location is tough

[Michael George]

Bill:

I agree fully on #14 not being a top 100 hole.  I really enjoy the hole, but am never tempted to go for it on the drive, so I don't view that as a real option.  The second shot is a great shot, but not enough to put in the top 100.  In terms of driveable par 4's, Bandon Dunes has about several par 4's that are better. 

I don't think it is even the best par 4 on the course.  I like #9 and #18 both better as they create options off the tee and have scenic and challenging approaches.  In addition, while #14 is a narrow green, I think the scariest 2nd shot on the course is #3 - the bunkers there are so penalizing.

I really think MV is defined by 2 of the best par 5's in the world in #5 and #11.  While it really does not have a weak hole, those 2 are really special. 

Re: the comments on #8, Jack changed the bunkering and in my opinion, it now does not fit the rest of the course.  The fix would not be difficult, but the Macdonald like bunkering on that hole does not fit the rest of the course's bunkering.  Still a terrific par 3, but the criticism is accurate.


Thanks again for the pictures.

[Bill McKinley]

Michael,

Completely agree with your comments.  But, I would throw 15 in there as a great par 5.

[Michael George]

Bill:

My only problem with 15 is that I was going to break 80 from the tips until I took an 8 on that hole.  It is a great hole though.

[Bill McKinley]

#15 Par 5. 529 yards.

Probably my favorite hole on the course.  Reasons?

1st we were able to climb up the big TV tower and take some cool photos


This one taken from the tower shows that the hole is set nicely in a rolling valley.  Your tee shot is not elevated this time and is hit into a hillside, unless you kill it then you can get to the top of the hill and go for it in two.
What's not to like about that...


But if you have to lay up, it's a blind lay up to a landing area below the crest of a hill.  You have to control your distance becuase too short or too long will be in the rough.  Then your 3rd is too a well bunkered (especially the deep right bunker) elevated green.


Taken from behind the green.  Very good par 5 using the natural terrain to its fullest.  Final reason why I like this hole, I made birdie, that always helps!

[Michael George]

Pictures do not do the difficulty of this hole justice. 

If you are 10 feet left of the fairway, the ground runs dramatically downhill and leaves a difficult recovery. 

Plus, the false front of the green is extremely steep and provides for short shots to roll back into the creek.  As Bill mentions, the closer you are to the creek after your second, the more difficult the shot becomes.

It is a great hole, but one that I would much rather forget.

[Scott Stearns]

I think 14 is a great short par 4

it was not designed to be drivable, and doing so is insane--and thats part of the charm to me.

Controlling spin is far more important on #14 than #3.  #14 green slopes toward the water.  #3 green does not. all you gotta do on #3 is get the ball on the green (..."all"...).  The back bunker on #14 is far more treacherous than the left bunker on #3.

[Bill McKinley]

#16 Par 3. 215 yards.

The 16th is a long par 3 that has a completely new approach and green complex.  As our caddie told us, they started the project in July of 2010 and were finished by the middle of October 2010.  The old green was almost a redan style green with a really deep bunker on the front left.  As the story goes, Jack didn't like that it was so easy for the Tour player to get it up and down from the bunker, so he decided to change it and put in a pond.  This may also have been done in preperation for the 2013 President's Cup, maybe to add some more drama to the closing holes, but that is speculation on my part.

Either way, I don't believe this hole fits very well with the rest of the holes at MVGC.  When I stepped on the tee I felt like I was playing a course in Florida.  It has a very open and flat feel to it and overall I would like to see what the old hole was like.

From the tee...


From closer too the green.  Very well manicured and should except some run up shots.

[Michael George]

The previous version also was out of place so I don't think it is the pond.  However, you are correct that it does not fit.

I personally think it is the vast area to the right of the hole and across 17 fairway.  While I am rarely an advocate for a tree planting program, the right of #16 and on both sides of #17 (from the tee to the landing area) need a number of trees to outline the 2 holes.  That area just looks like a pasture and is unlike any other area on the golf course.  Again, the golf holes are great - just not the symmetry between them and the rest of the course. 

Bill - I would be interested in knowing if you agree with.

[Will Lozier]

I remember the old #16 as a very good - even natural - (long) short hole that played over the same natural depression as does the approach to 15.  To my memory, this was one of the least tinkered with holes on the golf course.  Below is a link to Mr. Shackelford's excellent website with some video of the old version and the construction of the new version - what I consider a poor copy of Augusta's 16.

http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2011/5/31/muirfield-villages-new-16th-to-debut.html

I also remember 17 as a much more interesting hole when it had the diagonal bunker off the tee rather than the blah "4 corners" bunkers now in place.  I really think Jack fouled up these two excellent holes.  I would love to hear from others who remember the older versions.

[Scott Stearns]

ANGC #16. plays up the green, and the green feeds from right to left.  Hole is 170 yards and green is 42 yards deep.  Its 29 yards from the front to the ridge that feeds the ball to the left...i.e. you can bounce it to the ridge and let it feed.

MV #17 does not play up the green--the putting surface is a sort of upside down "U" facing the tee.  you gotta fly it and stop it.  Hole is 201 yards and 32 yards deep.  The back left portion of the green is 11 yards deep.  Get it down FAST.  Or hit a 20 yard swinger from right to left.

They look alike in reverse, on TV.  But they play totally differently.  Idea of the new 17 was to create some drama for match play, according to what i've been told.  and the new one looks a lot better than the old.  But there is no question the old one was better for members than the new. And i liked the two shelfs left and right on the old.  thought it asked a good player to keep it below the hole.

new ones gonna create a 17th at Sawgrass type of effect for a match thats close going in.

[Ryan DeMay]

The previous version also was out of place so I don't think it is the pond.  However, you are correct that it does not fit.

I personally think it is the vast area to the right of the hole and across 17 fairway.  While I am rarely an advocate for a tree planting program, the right of #16 and on both sides of #17 (from the tee to the landing area) need a number of trees to outline the 2 holes.  That area just looks like a pasture and is unlike any other area on the golf course.  Again, the golf holes are great - just not the symmetry between them and the rest of the course.  

Bill - I would be interested in knowing if you agree with.

Michael,

It's odd that you mention that the area near and adjacent to #16 looks like a pasture, because it was in fact a horse pasture before Jack started acquiring the property back in the late 1960's.  The maintenance facility sits to the right of #16 and still uses two of the old horse stables to house equipment and materials.  Just another interesting piece of trivia from one of the great modern era courses IMHO.

[Scott Stearns]

Interesting fact on the horse stables.

A tree planting program would interfere with gallery flow and tent space for big events.  Looks funny week to week but less so during the big one.

[Will Lozier]

ANGC #16. plays up the green, and the green feeds from right to left.  Hole is 170 yards and green is 42 yards deep.  Its 29 yards from the front to the ridge that feeds the ball to the left...i.e. you can bounce it to the ridge and let it feed.

MV #17 does not play up the green--the putting surface is a sort of upside down "U" facing the tee.  you gotta fly it and stop it.  Hole is 201 yards and 32 yards deep.  The back left portion of the green is 11 yards deep.  Get it down FAST.  Or hit a 20 yard swinger from right to left.

They look alike in reverse, on TV.  But they play totally differently.  Idea of the new 17 was to create some drama for match play, according to what i've been told.  and the new one looks a lot better than the old.  But there is no question the old one was better for members than the new. And i liked the two shelfs left and right on the old.  thought it asked a good player to keep it below the hole.

new ones gonna create a 17th at Sawgrass type of effect for a match thats close going in.

Scott,

I assume you mean MV #16?  Look alike in reverse?  The only difference visually is the lack of a front left bunker with, instead a back left bunker.  I never said the play the same.  Neither do #12 at each course...both MV holes are longer.  How are these 16th holes reverses of one another?  I am amazed that one wouldn't prefer the old version going plateau to plateau!  

Compare this photo with the one above:

http://www.google.com/imgres?start=16&num=10&um=1&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&biw=1194&bih=642&tbm=isch&tbnid=C6pS_3iMaz5L5M:&imgrefurl=http://www.columbuscityscene.org/lucky_number_16.html&docid=iGDRV2NQ95DM9M&imgurl=http://www.columbuscityscene.org/article_images/7614.jpg&w=220&h=171&ei=dobETvaYDpDMtgeW3ZTPDQ&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=342&sig=111735979206347885576&sqi=2&page=2&tbnh=133&tbnw=170&ndsp=19&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:16&tx=106&ty=60

Cheers

[Scott Stearns]

Yes-meant #16 at MV.  "in reverse" was meant to mean "looked at from behind the green, toward the tee"

Length isnt the only reason these hole play differently..my point was that the comment "the new MV #16 looks like a copy of ANGC #16", which i think is usually menat derisively,  is wrong.  they may look alike on TV, but they dont look alike from the bakc tee in person, and they sure dont play that way.

[Will Lozier]

Yes-meant #16 at MV.  "in reverse" was meant to mean "looked at from behind the green, toward the tee"

Length isnt the only reason these hole play differently..my point was that the comment "the new MV #16 looks like a copy of ANGC #16", which i think is usually menat derisively,  is wrong.  they may look alike on TV, but they dont look alike from the bakc tee in person, and they sure dont play that way.

Scott,

Below is a short excerpt from an article in Golfweek:

2) 16th revisited: It’s named Redbud, and at 170 yards, the par 3 at Augusta National is the last water hole in a stretch of watery graves from the 11th to the 16th. In 1947, Alister MacKenzie changed the hole, building a pond and moving the green right.

It took five years of thinking about it, but in 2011 Nicklaus finally decided to change the 16th hole at Muirfield. He shortened it by about 10 yards, to 201, but expanded the creek near the green into a pond, giving the hole an appearance similar to Augusta’s 16th.

“He’s got two par 3s on the back that look just like Augusta,” a player on the range said.

Nicklaus’ reasoning for the change: “I think a lot of shots hit in there went through the green very easily or into the back bunker. I never really cared for the way the ball went into that green.”

Since 1976, the 16th hole has ranked the 11th-hardest hole, with a stroke average of 3.124, the second-hardest par 3, next to the fourth hole.

I find it interesting that you disagree with my observations given those of at least one Tour player.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()