Scottish Highland (goilf) dreams

[David_Tepper]

Nice travel article for anyone thinking of visiting the Highlands:

http://www.pgatour.com/2011/tourlife/travel/11/04/cow/index.html

[Kris Shreiner]

David,

A good overview of golf in the Highlands, but that bit on Nairn is pure fluff. That is a mediocre golf course at best. I've had numerous discussions, with multiple folks who know and appreciate links golf, to get others take, to be sure I'm not missing something there. The views expressed are generally the same. It lacks the quality found on many other links courses. Given how it is held out as something special by some, usually media PR such as this article, while I certainly wish Nairn well in their presentation and financial success, giving dubious distinction to something that doesn't have the goods leaves folks disappointed when they play it and it comes up short. With so much quality golf up there, especially on some of the lesser known gems like Brora and Moray, the constant trumpeting of Nairn is tough on this ear!

Cheers,
Kris

[David_Tepper]

Kris -

Your enmity for Nairn is well known. I can't say it is one of my very favorite courses either.

On the other hand, Nairn has been ranked among the top 30 or 40 courses in GB&I for many years. It has hosted the British Amateur and the Walker Cup. It will host the Curtis Cup next June.

Clearly, there are knowledgeable, authoritative people in the world of golf who have a different opinion of Nairn.

DT
 

[Kris Shreiner]

Heavy politics at work I'm afraid. Ask any group of golfers who have played a decent sampling of the better Scottish links offerings and I doubt Nairn is in the top 10 for half of them. Just because folks award championships does not demonstrate acumen.  My Scottish wife sums it up as the "gin palace" effect. If the clubhouse has what the poobahs deem acceptable, it's game on! Think about Carnastie...not a Open was there since Tom won in the 80s until the monument was on the drawing board. Did the course lose its starch? Draw your own conclusions.

As for Nairn, I can't think of a weaker course in the GB&I line up that would host so much important golf in such a short span. There isn't one great hole on the entire course. It's hard to find 3-4 holes that would even qualify as very good. If I'm off, where is the superb golf I'm missing on that ground? I am heartened that you also recognize it for what is there.

Everyone it certainly entitled to their opinion. I just can't find the quality of golf there that justifies championship play being awarded to those levels.

Cheers,
Kris

[Kin Britton]

I have to agree with the feedback on Nairn.  We had a very enjoyable day and the club is very nice, however, the course just lacked something.  Certainly not a bad course, but just did not live up to the advance billing.  As far as a club and town it was top notch.  One of the nicer clubhouses, great food and very welcoming members.  It was a trip when we played Dornoch, Brora, Cruden Bay, Aberdeen, and North Berwick.  I thought Nairn was just outclassed by the rest of these courses.  We also played Carnoustie...it really did not meet expectations either.

[Alex Lagowitz]

I think the most overlooked course in Scotland is up UP in the Highlands....Brora
What a wonderful track and surely a unique setting with sheep and cows roaming the fairways side-by-side with the golfers.
It reminds one of the true beginnings of golf.
Architecturally, Brora boasts some great links holes courtesy of Mr. James Braid.
Missing out on playing this course is a shame, and every trip to the Highlands should feature a round at this hidden classic.

[Sev K-H Keil]

I agree that Brora is an often overlooked Highlands course and a true links gem. In the same context, Golspie should also be on the must-play list for every Dornoch visitor...

[Michael Whitaker]

I agree that Brora is an often overlooked Highlands course and a true links gem. In the same context, Golspie should also be on the must-play list for every Dornoch visitor...

Sev - Golspie is quite the surprise to those who luck upon it. Lots of good golf there and it should definitely be visited as part of a trip to the Dornoch area.

[Sev K-H Keil]

... Golspie golf is great, no doubt --- if one needed another reason to visit ---- we also quite enjoy the food (and wine, of course) at the Golspie Inn in town--- one of my favorites behind the legendary Luigi's in Dornoch...

[Niall C]

Where to start on this one !

Brora - most overlooked course in Scotland ? Sorry Alex, it doesn't even qualify for that category. Brora, Tain and Golspie have been lumped together with Dornoch from the year dot and have always been quoted as part of the essential Highland golfing tour. And just in case some of you who don't know, Dornoch existed before Tom Watson discovered it.

Kris - I hate to make a habit of disagreeing with you but I'm afraid I've got to in this case. I think I can safely say I know a damn sight more Scottish golfers than you, of all abilities, and of those that I know have played Nairn and have talked to them about it they all rate it highly. I do agree that overseas golfers do tend to be disappointed with at the lack of towering dunes and the like but the Scots don't really worry about that sort of thing. They just concern themselves with the golf course.

As for your wifes views, it does look as though politics seem to be colouring her views. Either that or its Dornoch folks well known jealousy at Nairn having better greens 

Niall

[Gary Slatter]

nice article, great area.  I found the native language in the highlands is easier to understand, in fact in Inverness it sounded like Canadian!
Nairn: love the course, played 36 two days and didn't want to leave!  enough excellent holes, great views, good food, perfect.  I have friends from Florida/Bahamas who return every year, play Nairn 4/7 days.  fun golf!

[Simon Holt]

Currently in Findhorn.  Ready for my first experience of Moray old tomorrow and really looking forward to it.

I have still not played Nairn so have no side in the argument- I am out for beers with one of the Nairn assistants tonight so will pick his brain about it.

S

[James Boon]

Kris,

As for Nairn, I can't think of a weaker course in the GB&I line up that would host so much important golf in such a short span. There isn't one great hole on the entire course. It's hard to find 3-4 holes that would even qualify as very good. If I'm off, where is the superb golf I'm missing on that ground? I am heartened that you also recognize it for what is there.

I played Nairn a couple of years ago, and I must admit I didn't fall in love with it! There were plenty of holes that were stern tests without having any real character. However, the 3rd, 4th and 5th are a great set of holes, which I would happily put up against many a run of links holes in the UK. Add to that some great greens and approaches, I'm thinking the 8th, 12th, 14th and 15th and I think the course certainly does enough. As I said, I don't love it and its not in my Top 25, but I can understand why its considered a Championship layout worthy of the Championships it has. Never really got the uphill 13th, and thats with a birdie on it as well  as it seemed a bit odd in comparison to the rest of the course.

I really feel like I should give it another go, but with the likes of Dornoch, Brora and Boat of Garten nearby, all of which I love, it will be difficult to manage it!

Cheers,

James

[Melvyn Morrow]

Simon

You will enjoy Moray, watch out for Niall, he is the one looking for free drinks at the bar.  Great course and for some reason not played as often as it should be. Enjoy









Melvyn

[Kris Shreiner]

Kin,

Thanks for the confirmation. I'm surprised you didn't get more out of Carnastie. I found it tough, but thrilling. Although I will say that while it doesn't wow you visually, being somewhat subtle, the test is superb.

James,

You generally are spot on with your insights, but I  MUST disagree with you on Nairn. Number 8 at Nairn? That is one of the worst short par four links holes I've ever played. That green, PARTICULARLY at the approach, was/is a certified mess. Unless they rebuilt it, which I doubt, it's awful. The nondescript nature of what you found on some holes was my entire feeling on the course. To be fair, it was late October, was wet and the greens were pathetic. That said, I know ground and that place didn't have the goods.

Niall,

Feel free to disagree. Where did who knew more Scottish golfers enter into the discussion? My remarks were to ALL golfers in general. The Scots you know who love it so much can have it, they CERTAINLY won't have me to fight with for a tee time. You equate eye candy with American discernment of course quality. Nice one. As to Nairn having better greens than RD, dream on! Royal Dornoch has as fine a set of links greens as can be found ANYWHERE in the world. That myth about Nairn always having great rolling greens gets a lot of mileage. Sadly, very few folks that I've spoken to that played it found them.

There are few people that have more fondness for Scotland, or the Highlands, than I do. Every chance I can, my championing of visiting there as a MUST is well known to all who know me at all. That said, we can't be honest and not make our assessments as we see them. I hope everyone who plays Nairn loves it and goes back a hundred times, but for me, it's well down on the list and not even in the conversation of better links courses in Scotland.

Cheers,
Kris

[Niall C]

Simon

Look forward to hearing your thoughts on Moray Old. BTW - I was in Findhorn yesterday when yesterday as well. A beautiful place that would be ven better if they would let someone develop the airbase next to it for golf.

Kris

You are quite right, you didn't mention Scottish golfers. But then when did I equate overseas golfers to being American ?

As for Nairn greens, their reputation in Scotland is renowned. Which is not to say Dornoch greens are bad, there not, but second best is hard to take for some Dornoch folk  BTW, played Nairn often ?

Carnoustie - I totaly agree with your assessment of the course which makes you unlike a lot of those overseas golfers referred to in my earlier post. However let me tell you a story on why the Open took so long to go back to Carnoustie after Watsons triumph in 1975. It wasn't because of the stuffed blazer set as I think you surmise. The course did indeed lose its starch as you put it. Bear in mind its basically always been a muni. At some point shortly after the '75 Open the course went into a steep decline with no money being spent on it at all. Things got so bad it went off the radar as far as championship golf was concerned. One other issue was lack of any half decent accommodation on site. Clearly the worlds best golfers weren't going to all stay iin local B&B's. The hotel behind the 18th green eventually addressed that problem however a more fundamental problem was the course. They eventually persuaded John Philp to come up from St Andrews as head greenkeeper and gave him carte blanche to do things his way and after an awful lot and many years of work they got the Open but even that was after they successfully held the Scottish Open.

Niall

[James Boon]

Kris,

In all honesty you might be correct regarding the 8th at Nairn. Here is the photo tour I did at the time, and you will note from my comments that while on the 8th tee a ball from the 9th shot through my legs, on my downswing, without even a hint of a shout of Fore!
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,42177.0.html
 

Cheers,

James

[Sean_A]

Nairn is every bit as good as Brora.  3-5, 11, 12, 14 and 15 are all very fine holes and there isn't a stinker on the course.  Nairn is certainly a step up from Tain/Golspie, but it doesn't hang with Dornoch.  The big issue with Nairn is the price.  At £85 it makes Brora a much more attractive prospect.  Bottomline, I wouldn't organize a trip with Nairn in it unless there was an issue with flight times. 

Ciao

[James Boon]

Sean,

I'd say Brora is a better course? A little rougher around the edges perhaps (not as rough as some make out by the way!) but I'd say the lesser holes at Brora have more character where as Nairn's lesser holes are probably still a good championship test but lacking in any real character. But you are probably right that they aren't that far apart. But using one of your own common criteria, the cost of the green fee, Brora does win by a country mile!

Cheers,

James

[Jon Wiggett]

Nairn usually has the better greens than either Brora or RD. I always enjoy playing it though it may not be as spectacular as RD it is a good solid test. I agree with Sean and James about the greenfee at Brora but you also need to factor in the extra hour to 90 mins it takes to get there. For anyone wanting to experience a good cross section of links golf then Moray and northwards up the east coast are just perfect.

For links golf I would suggest

1. Spey Bay is a great under the radar links offering no frills club golfer style links golf at a good price
2. Moray old classic links golf at its best.
3. Nairn west solid championship golf course is usually in excellent condition
4. Castle Stuart great modern links though GF is stiff if you are not from the area
5. Fortrose offers fun links golf in a stunning setting if somewhat cramped.
6. Portmahomack. This fun little 9 holer is well worth the detour
7. Tain. Tee to green as good as any links course I have played. Could be a world beater if the greens were as good.
8. Royal Dornoch
9. Golspie. This course has improved incredible in the last 10 years. Fun mixture of tradition links/inland golf
10. Brora. Throw back to how links golf was and for many probably should still be.
11. Helmsdale. Short, quirky and in poor condition but cheap and fun to play.
12. Wick. Old fashioned no nonsense golf.

My knowledge of the inland courses is not as good but Inland golf courses worth a visit include that I have played are Forres, Brahan, Bonar Bridge, Fort Augustus, Boat of Garten, Grantown on Spey.

Jon

[Mark Alexander]

For those who haven't played Nairn, here's a link to photo tour on my website.

http://www.markalexanderphotography.co.uk/TheNairnGolfClub/

Simon, how did you find it?

[Kris Shreiner]

James,

Thank you sir. I'm hard on Nairn, I'll admit, but I just didn't see the quality there, that is all. Other than #8, I can't recall bad hole, just a lot of plain, uninteresting ones. That clubhouse is one of the most grotesque edifices I've ever averted my eyes to. If it were not for the most gracious nature of my host, I'd have vacated the premises upon the conclusion of the round.

Niall,

The "tower dunes" reference gave your comment's direction an obvious bent...it certainly wasn't referencing the Danes was it?

Thanks for the overview of Carnastie's fall of form in the 80s and early 90s. No shock there really, and sad to say the town has a dreary pall about it, probably my least favorite in Scotland. That said, they put the course right and have the monument for the Open there so it's all good. I will say that is the hardest golf course I've ever played and I've played some beasts. I do love it though!

Cheers,
Kris

As to Nairn's greens, they may roll well SOME OF THE TIME, but I can show you the most boring $25.00 muni greens in the world that might roll well...ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. Brora has 5X more interest and fun than the Nairn seance will ever have. Sure, Brora has a raw, shabby chic presentation; IT'S THE BEST VALUE IN LINKS GOLF....PERIOD!!!!

I've also NEVER seen Dornoch's greens in poor condition. Dornoch's blew Nairn's away when I played both that year and I wasn't a member of RD yet and and had never seen either golf course. NO bias, straight up...it's not even a fair fight comparing those two.

[Jon Wiggett]

Kris,

whilst it is a matter of opinion as to how good courses are and I am with you on Brora in as much as if I had to play one week in week out then it would be Brora rather than Nairn but..... I have know quite a few locals who play both RD and Nairn on a regular basis and all say that Nairn has the better greens. Also, although Nairn might not have holes of the quality of some at RD it also does not have weak links such as the 7th.

I know many will not agree with me but for me Nairn provides a solid, test of golf over a course that is probably in total more than the sum of its parts. Also Nairn is a more even test all year round where as RD is definitely not half the course in winter that it is in summer.

To sum it up. Just because Nairn is not quite the same as RD you have to ask how many courses are. Carnoustie for instance has for me had much of the playing interest wrung out of it in order to reach the perceived standard challenge required for an Open. I preferred playing it in the mid 80's despite the poor condition of the playing surface to the grind it provides now.

Jon

[Niall C]

Kris

Actually I was referencing all overseas visitors including americans and scandinavians. Now the DG on here is largely american (I would guess) and there does seem to be a bit of a perception on here that in the main visiting golfers to UK tend to be american. That may well be the case (I have absolutely no stats to say one way or the other) but my perception FWIW from my membership of a couple of second/third tier clubs is that the bulk of visiting golfers are UK based and of the overseas golfers there are a lot of europeans, particularly from Scandinavia (a lot to do with cheap flights and where they fly into). If I was a member at an Open venue, sitting in the clubhouse watching the line of Perry Golf buses pulling up, then I might have a different perspective, I don't know.

So when I referenced overseas golfers, I really was thinking of more than just americans. Now having said that, both Kingsbarns and Castle Stuart made great play on the views created both internally and externally, and I needn't remind you I'm sure that both are american designed and built.

Greens - probably need to make a distinction between how well they roll and the qulaity of the contours. In terms of conditioning, Nairn has a reputation that Dornoch doesn't have, whether you or others agree or not. From my half dozen plays there and my half dozen plays at Dornoch, I'm of the view that Nairns roll better which is not to say Dornochs are bad, they are not. The only other links greens I would compare to Nairns would be the muni's at Troon.

Contour wise, Dornoch probably has a slight edge for internal contours but where I think Dornoch falls down is the overuse of the plateau green. For me personally, its a design ploy that gets old fairly quickly although I have come to love the 18th at Moray Old.

Niall

  

[Kris Shreiner]

Jon and Niall,

Fair points all around. RD has the quality throughout that doen't need to rest on any one element. #7 is not a bad hole at all. That's EASILY on par with the BETTER holes on Nairn! Nairn has greens that roll well most of the time...I'll take your word on it, I got a disaster on my only play. Others II've spoken with who have played it other times said they were no great shakes? In the end, give a go any make your call. Mine has been made, and at the extortionate sum of 85 quid for that offering...they'll not see me again.

Cheers,
Kris