Hickory golf and marketing

[John Mayhugh]

Seeing a couple of hickory threads on the first page, I'm inspired to ask about the marketing of this type of golf.

I played with hickories for the first (and only) time at Kingsley in September.  Though I only played a single round, I'm already thinking about getting some clubs for myself.  It was a blast.  Playing with these clubs makes you look at the ground game & classic courses in a whole new way.

The fun I had with the clubs makes me think that hickory golf may be one of the worst marketed golf products ever.  It seems that every time you see photos of people playing with hickories, they are dressed as if it were 1920.  For me, at least, that "living in the past" image limited my interest in this type of golf.

For those that like play with hickories, how many of you also want to dress the part?  Do you feel out of place if you're wearing modern clothes?

If you haven't tried hickories, does this image have any effect on your interest in trying them?

[Tommy Williamsen]

I can't say that I play "with" hickories.  I have played "at" it.  I have some old ones that I will take on the course periodically for fun. They are hard to use.  When I was a small boy I only had hickories, so they are not completely strange, but after years of big headed irons and woods they feel like tiny foreign implements.

[Ken Moum]

Seeing a couple of hickory threads on the first page, I'm inspired to ask about the marketing of this type of golf.

I played with hickories for the first (and only) time at Kingsley in September.  Though I only played a single round, I'm already thinking about getting some clubs for myself.  It was a blast.  Playing with these clubs makes you look at the ground game & classic courses in a whole new way.

Moder courses, too

The fun I had with the clubs makes me think that hickory golf may be one of the worst marketed golf products ever.  It seems that every time you see photos of people playing with hickories, they are dressed as if it were 1920.  For me, at least, that "living in the past" image limited my interest in this type of golf.

For those that like play with hickories, how many of you also want to dress the part?

No real interest in dressing the part. I assembled my set because I wanted to see if i could "handle" playing with clubs even older than the persimmon/blades sets I have.

 Do you feel out of place if you're wearing modern clothes?

Not really, every hickory round I've played was in the company of golfers with modern equipment and modern dress. If they want to play tees longer than the sub-6,000-yard tees I prefer for hickory, that's not a problem, either.  FWIW, if you can out-score them with hickories, it opens some eyes.

If you haven't tried hickories, does this image have any effect on your interest in trying them?

I would be inclined to think that two things deter people from doing it.  First and foremost is total lack of avaiability of suitable hickery-shafted clubs for people to use.  Second is the overwhelming belief that it's impossbile to play golf without the latest, greatest "game-improvement" sticks.

For me, the game is neither better nor worse with clubs from today, the 1960s or 1930s.  I play some golf every summer with vintage clubs and as long as I keep the length of the course within my distance capabilities, the scores don't vary all that much.

In 2010, my low round of the year was shot with 1958 Haig Ultra blades bought new by my father--whichi include a 60* SW, a Bullseye putter I got in 1959 for my birthday, and some graphite-shafted Honma woods (can't handle the weight of steel wood shafts anymore)

This year I played several rounds with hickory, and averaged around 90, compared to my "modern" average of 85.

[Mark Chaplin]

http://www.hickorydays.co.uk/

[John Mayhugh]

http://www.hickorydays.co.uk/

A great place for it, though I would prefer to leave the Edwardian kit alone.

[PCCraig]

John,

I agree about the clothes. While I personally wouldn't want to play with hickories every round, I think they are fun enough to play with that it would be worth picking up a set and taking them out for late afternoon rounds...dressed in "modern" clothes. But then again, what would Old Tom say if he saw a golfer wearing a moisture golf shirt...

In terms of its marketing, Hickory Golf has a long way to go to be any more "mainstream" than the very small niche it is now. However, most golfers ("In America" I guess) care too much about their score and how far their tee balls go and therefore would be hard pressed to accept clubs that 1) don't go as far and 2) makes it even slightly harder to play golf.

[Mike Policano]

John,

I see you have discovered the fun of hickories. I started casually playing hickories a couple of years with reproduction clubs by Tad Moore. Last year, when you were on Long Island,  I went to Fishers Island and played hickories.  I smiled the entire way around.  My buddy Tim saw how much fun i was having and decided he would play them this year.  Tim is a single digit with a silky smooth swing.  He now plays over half his rounds with hickories. Ironically he authored a book about hickories, Claret Dreams, two years ago. Tim, who is a master carpenter, now restores hickory clubs.  

I have put together a set of original lefty Tom Stewart irons. Tom Stewart is arguably the greatest iron maker from the beginning of the 20th century. He made clubs for Bobby Jones, Harry Vardon, Francis Ouimet, Ted Ray and other top players. I am now close to playing half my rounds with hickories.

As for the clothes, 90% of the time, I just wear the usual golf shirt, shorts and baseball style hat. Every once in a while, there is an event and I go with the Ryan Moore look.

As for marketing, as you now know, you have to play with the clubs for nine holes to get bit by the bug. Just hitting one or two balls doesn't do it. It is the playing of 18 that gives you an alternate view of golf. There is no grinding for a score with hickories. There is a series of small victories throughout the round. This summer I had five guys play 9-18 holes with hickories. Four of them got bit. Tim restored sets of hickories from the 1920's for all of them.  

Now to take advantage of this "marketing" opportunity.  Brian Shulman, a tall hickory player who routinely drives the ball 270-280, started the Tri-State Hickory Player's Club in the NY area this Fall and held the first Long Island Hickory Championship.

In 2011, we plan to hold monthly hickory outings at period golf courses in the NY area. We are speaking with clubs that have courses designed by Travis, Ross, Raynor, MacDonald, Banks, Tilly and Emmet.  We are close to deciding a date in May at Ridgewood and Paramount is interested in holding a tournament. Anyone interested in more details as they become available can go to Brian's website.

John, we thank you for this commercial interruption.

Cheers, Mike

  

[Jud_T]

Mike,

I'm pretty impressed that you've been able to put together a lefty Stewart set.  I assume it was several years ago as I've only been able to come up with 4 clubs over the past 2 years, and that includes paying up and the generosity of one of GCA's own hickory mavens.

John,

Some of us know our limitations in terms of clothing.  You will not be seeing me in knickers anytime soon...

[Melvyn Morrow]

Jud

When in St Andrews with your daughter try and arrange a quick tour of the St Andrews Golfing Company
(standrewsgolfco.com/ ) and look at their advert in The World Hickory Golfer (http://www.worldhickorygolfer.com/ )

There are talks of some Hickory Tournament at Askernish in 2013 via the World Hickory Golfer.

Melvyn

[Steve Lapper]

John,

I see you have discovered the fun of hickories. I started casually playing hickories a couple of years with reproduction clubs by Tad Moore. Last year, when you were on Long Island,  I went to Fishers Island and played hickories.  I smiled the entire way around.  My buddy Tim saw how much fun i was having and decided he would play them this year.  Tim is a single digit with a silky smooth swing.  He now plays over half his rounds with hickories. Ironically he authored a book about hickories, Claret Dreams, two years ago. Tim, who is a master carpenter, now restores hickory clubs.  

I have put together a set of original lefty Tom Stewart irons. Tom Stewart is arguably the greatest iron maker from the beginning of the 20th century. He made clubs for Bobby Jones, Harry Vardon, Francis Ouimet, Ted Ray and other top players. I am now close to playing half my rounds with hickories.

As for the clothes, 90% of the time, I just wear the usual golf shirt, shorts and baseball style hat. Everyone in a while, there is an event and I go with the Ryan Moore look.

As for marketing, as you now know, you have to play with the clubs for nine holes to get bit by the bug. Just hitting one or two balls doesn't do it. It is the playing of 18 that gives you an alternate view of golf. There is no grinding for a score with hickories. There is a series of small victories throughout the round. This summer I had five guys play 9-18 holes with hickories. Four of them got bit. Tim restored sets of hickories from the 1920's for all of them.  

Now to take advantage of this "marketing" opportunity.  Brian Shulman, a tall hickory player who routinely drives the ball 270-280, started the Tri-State Hickory Player's Club in the NY area this Fall and held the first Long Island Hickory Championship.

In 2011, we plan to hold monthly hickory outings at period golf courses in the NY area. We are speaking with clubs that have courses designed by Travis, Ross, Raynor, MacDonald, Banks, Tilly and Emmet.  We are close to deciding a date in May at Ridgewood and Paramount is interested in holding a tournament. Anyone interested in more details as they become available can go to Brian's website.

John, we thank you for this commercial interruption.

Cheers, Mike

  

As one of those with a new "bite" mark on my arse, I remember why I hate you!!!

[Mike Policano]

Jud,

I got lucky and fell into a set of lefty Stewarts this year. I then started keeping my ears open and I now have close to three dozes lefty Stewarts that all have been restored.

I am helping another lefty put together a set to play. We are focusing on Scottish made irons and US made woods which are easier to find lefty.

I have read that the top club makers made righties for stock but only made lefties for order.

Cheers, Mike

[Mike Policano]

Steve, 

How many times have I told you not to tell anyone I know yo?. (smiley thing)

[Mike Policano]

Ran,

You master hickory player, feel free to jump in on a non- architecture thread.

Cheers, Mike

[John Mayhugh]

As for marketing, as you now know, you have to play with the clubs for nine holes to get bit by the bug. Just hitting one or two balls doesn't do it. It is the playing of 18 that gives you an alternate view of golf. There is no grinding for a score with hickories. There is a series of small victories throughout the round.

That's it exactly.  I can only imagine how much fun Fishers would be.

Do you have a link to Brian's website?  Might as well go all out with the marketing effort. 


Ken,
Agreed that many moderns are a good fit for hickory golf as well.


Jud,
If you mean the British use of the term knickers, perish the thought!   

[Mac Plumart]

John...

Glad you liked playing hickory.  I find it fun...but I am not going with the vintage clothing anytime soon...not that there is anything wrong with that.   

From a golf course standpoint, I find playing classic courses designed originally in the hickory era (from the appropriate tees) really brings out the magic of the hickory game and the golf course.  For me, it highlights how much of a hazards bunkers really were and how water hazards are not needed.

Have fun!!

Mac

[Tom Dunne]

I caught the bug at Kingarrock this past spring. With Mike's help, I have begun looking for my own hickory set. If you're in St. Andrews, Kingarrock really is a must--it's all of 15-20 minutes from town and is a wonderful way to spend part of an afternoon. With an 1898 golf ball, a 200-yard hole turns into a legitimate par four. The place can teach you a lot about how much of golf architecture is related to scale.

Geoff Shackelford put together a very good video about the place last year. Most of you have probably seen it, but for those who haven't: http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2010/12/23/golf-as-it-should-be-files-kingarrock.html

To answer John's question, I don't have much interest in the vintage attire, but I do think it's fun to dress nicely for a hickory occasion.

[Jud_T]

Mike,

Thanks.  I may IM you with questions in the future if you don't mind...

[Mike Policano]

Here you go John,

Tri State is at www.hickoryplayersclub.com

The Society of Hickory Golfers is at www.hickorygolfers.com

[Mike Policano]

Jud, happy to help. A lefty hickory golfer has a much harder time finding quality playable clubs. On the other hand, we save a lot of money because there isn't as much to buy.

[Eric Smith]

Just curious, does playing with hickories help any of you to pick (slide) the ball, rather than dig? I'm afraid I'd break the shaft, or at least loosen the fitting, with my excavator like approach to hitting iron shots!

[Melvyn Morrow]

Break the shaft, Eric my boy you need to buy some quality clubs and stop buying crap knackered gear. Have you no respect for your game

Melvyn

[Mike Policano]

Eric, I thought picking was the way to go until I played with a tall guy who took big divots and shot in the high 70's. So, Melvyn is rghft, take healthy swings at the ball. The shafts hold up remarkably well.

[Jerry Kluger]

I had a great time playing hickories at Ballyneal where the firm and fast conditions are perfect for hickories.  I really had no idea how far I was hitting each club but fortunately I had a smart young caddie who is an Evans scholar and just handed me the club and said hit it.  The only downside I found to playing hickories was that I really felt the shock when I hit the ground and by the end of the round I realized I had better go back to graphite.

[John Mayhugh]

Thanks for the links, Mike.

[Mike Policano]

John,

Glad to help. If you are coming East next season and want to play hickories, I have a set of eighties from Tim for people to use.

Cheers, Mike