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Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What happened to Prestwick?
« Reply #25 on: January 05, 2002, 10:18:25 AM »
Paul Richards:

You are quite right, it was stricken some seventy-five years ago and my point was an anachronism. However, don't you agree it would be a chore to get twenty or thirty thousand spectators around the course? I am not sure of the acreage, but it does get awfully narrow in parts. Maybe safety of the crowds was one of the reason for its abandonment.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What happened to Prestwick?
« Reply #26 on: January 05, 2002, 06:47:45 PM »
Bob:

Absolutely correct.  Holes 1,2 and 14-18 would be very
tough to put much of a crowd around.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Dan King

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What happened to Prestwick?
« Reply #27 on: January 05, 2002, 07:29:27 PM »
The last Open Championship at Prestwick happened in 1925. Scotland's favorite son, Macdonald Smith, went into the final round with the lead.  More and more people kept arriving at the course to see Smith win his first major championship. The crowds were everywhere, slowing down the play of the late starters, one of who was Mr. Smith.  He ended up shooting 82 in the final round to finish fourth, three shots behind the winner, Jim Barnes.  Barnes shot a final round 74 in the morning, long before the crowds arrived to watch Mr. Smith.

It wasn't the quality of the course, or where to put tents. The Open never returned to Prestwick because of crowd control.

The British Amateur has been played at Prestwick 11 times over the years, most recently last year.

Quote
"It was a thoroughly exciting championship but hardly a pleasant one, since there were altogether too many people. So many, indeed, that despite the unselfish and valiant efforts of the Prestwick stewarts, I gravely doubt whether a championship should be played there again. Golf can be altogether too popular."
 --Bernard Darwin (reporting on the 1925 Open Championship at Prestwick for The Times)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Mark_Huxford

Re: What happened to Prestwick?
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2002, 01:07:31 AM »

Quote
Mark -

Re Alister's comments, Mackenzie's, like many architects, tends to get more personal than objective when it involves a project he bid on, but did not win.

Can you name some? Riviera perhaps??



« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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John_McMillan

Re: What happened to Prestwick?
« Reply #29 on: January 06, 2002, 09:04:43 AM »
Mark -

I don't think that Mackenzie was considered for the design at Riviera.  

Another course I had in mind was Royal Lytham - which selected Harry Colt over Mackenzie to make revisions to the course.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Evan Fleisher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What happened to Prestwick?
« Reply #30 on: January 06, 2002, 10:04:20 AM »
Once again, I completely agree with Paul's comments above.  How could a true golf junky (anr/or lover of GCA) NOT make a trip to Prestwick during their pilgrimage?  The king of quirk and interesting shot values, along with jumbo jets landing on your head, and maybe some wind in your face...how does it get any better than that?!?

 :P
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Born Rochester, MN. Grew up Miami, FL. Live Cleveland, OH. Handicap 12.2. Have 24 & 21 year old girls and wife of 27 years. I'm a Senior Supply Chain Business Analyst for Vitamix. Diehard walker, but tolerate cart riders! Love to travel, always have my sticks with me. Mollydooker for life!

John_McMillan

Re: What happened to Prestwick?
« Reply #31 on: January 06, 2002, 01:26:27 PM »
Mark -

Mackenzie and Colt worked as partners in the years following WW II.  The partnership split around 1923.  In addition to both Lytham interviewing both Mackenzie and Colt (and chosing Colt),  the Doak/Scott/Haddock biography of Mackenzie points out that Colt and Mackenzie submitted separate plans for Worcestershire Golf Club, while still partners - an unusual situation indicating some difficulties between the Mackenzie and Colt.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What happened to Prestwick?
« Reply #32 on: January 06, 2002, 02:17:27 PM »
Mark Huxford/John McMillan:

Unless memory fails me, I believe somewhere Geoff Shackelford wrote that Mackenzie was a candidate for the pitch and putt course at Riviera.  I don't recall reading he was a serious candidate for the main course.

I don't know.  Geoff's the expert on this topic.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Tim Weiman

Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What happened to Prestwick?
« Reply #33 on: January 06, 2002, 02:44:33 PM »
Mark/John,

To follow up, I took a look at Geoff's Riviera history, specifically, the section on Mackenzie's visit to Riviera and his account of the "Mashie Course".

Geoff highlights the very favorable comments Mackenzie made about Thomas' work, providing no hint of any ill feelings on Mackenzie's part.

Goeff also states that the Mashie course (which no longer exists) was also Thomas' design.

After looking at the club history, I also took a look at Geoff's more serious study of Goerge Thomas "The Captain" wherein he comments more extensively, and perhaps more candidly, about Mackenzie and Riviera.  Geoff reports Mackenzie being very crtical of Thomas' Mashie course, so critical that Riviera oldtimers speculate he was unhappy he didn't receive the commision to build the main course.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Tim Weiman
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