Who would you hire to restore your classic course?

[PCCraig]

With new golf course construction slowing almost to a standstill (see: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,50115.0.html) many golf course architects are obviously putting a lot of effort into restoration and redesign projects here in the United States. Some even specialize in them (Ron Prichard on Ross Courses for one).

Of all the architects currently in the restoration and redesign business these days, which one would you hire to restore your favorite classic golf course and why?

[Ally Mcintosh]

I don't believe that my club have any architect engaged at present.

But when next they hire a consulting architect, were they to ask my advice, I would urge them to go with an architect who turns to containment mounding only as a last resort... This because of the nature of the site... Beyond that I would have to see individual proposals...

[Shane Wright]

I don't believe that my club have any architect engaged at present.

But when next they hire a consulting architect, were they to ask my advice, I would urge them to go with an architect who turns to containment mounding only as a last resort... This because of the nature of the site... Beyond that I would have to see individual proposals...

Is your club "thinking" of doing some work to it?  Your comment about containment mounding is spot on with regards to your club.

[Joel_Stewart]

Of all the architects currently in the restoration and redesign business these days, which one would you hire to restore your favorite classic golf course and why?

How many are really in the restoration business?   All of them (100%) will say they are but how many actually have done it (correctly) is another question. 

The superintendent of my  former club hired this blow hard who was a great schmoozer and talked the talk but didn't know the difference between CB MacDonald and Ronald MacDonald.   In the end they ended up with a terrible product.

To answer my own question, there are less than 20 qualified architects to do quality restoration work.

[Niall C]

Really ?!? Care to name them ?

Niall

[Howard Riefs]

In keeping with your reference of Prichard...

I'd start the research process with identifying those architects that have previously and successfully restored a classic course by the original architect -- bie it Ross, Tillinghast, McDonald/Raynor, etc.  That's not to say it would serve as an absolute list of architects to consider for the project, but it does serve as a good foundation.

[JC Jones]

Pat,

The over/under is 11.5 posts not including my own.

[Jud_T]

Beyond all the usual GCA suspects, Prichard's the man.  Exhibit A is Skokie Country Club...I'm also keen to see Foster's work at Knollwood having played the course a bunch before he got his hands on it...

[Keith OHalloran]

Brian Silva came and did a great job at Southampton Golf Club, I would not hesitate to hire him again or Lester for the work at Greenbrier.
While Rivermont may not have been a classic course, the work Mike Riley did there would make it easy for me to hire him to renovate an existing course.

[Tom_Doak]

I'd start the research process with identifying those architects that have previously and successfully restored a classic course by the original architect -- bie it Ross, Tillinghast, McDonald/Raynor, etc.  That's not to say it would serve as an absolute list of architects to consider for the project, but it does serve as a good foundation.

Not to endorse or disrespect any particular architect, but I think the above approach is the wrong one.  You don't want somebody who "already knows" all the answers.  You want someone who's committed to the idea of restoration and will work hard to understand the course you've got, no matter who built it.   Ross, Tillinghast, Macdonald and the rest were great architects who didn't want to build the same course every time out, so you have to study what they actually built for that particular course, and not just present a caricature of their work.

Also, for my money, you want an architect who can build anything they see in a photo, not an architect who will rely on a certain contractor who's done a lot of [insert particular ODG architect] courses before.

[Mark Saltzman]

If it's a Stanley Thompson, I think Ian Andrew is the no-brainer, easy answer.

[Joel_Stewart]

The other items that is critical is the budget for doing such a project.   Certain restorations/renovations turned out great in the last 10 years because the clubs had the money to do it right.  Cal Club and Los Angeles CC spent around $10 million for each.  Imagine if those club only had a $4 million budget?

[Mike Nuzzo]

To answer my own question, there are less than 20 qualified architects to do quality restoration work.

Would I be on your list?
Cheers

I like and believe Tom's answer.

[Tom_Doak]

$10 million?  Seriously?

[Mac Plumart]

Wouldn't you have to hear everyone's "pitch" before making a decision?  I know I would want to hear them.

I'd invite a lot of them and hear what they had to say.  If possible, I'd love to hear from all the big names on this site.  Mike Nuzzo seems to deserve a shot at the big time.  Ian Andrew's work at Highlands Links seems to be impressive, judged only by the passion he seems to have for the project as I haven't seen the course as of yet.  Doak and his team have to be invited, but I'd be scared of the price tag.  Jim Urbina would be HIGH up on the list.  Drew Rogers, of course, gets an invite from me.  Mike Riley would knock the freakin' doors off of any project.

I could go on and on and I don't mean to be excluding anyone...I just don't have the time to list everyone.  Invite all to pitch.  Listen to who seems to line up with what you want the course to do and/or be all about.  Perhaps visit some of their past work.  Listen to prior clubs who've hired them.  Make a decision.  Give them a budget.  And get the heck out of the way!!

[Jeff_Lewis]

We have just about finished a very successful restoration (actually almost a transformation, but that's another story) of Quaker Ridge and Gil Hanse could not have in any way done better for us.  He has the right temperment, insight, technical knowledge and instincts for this kind of work.  I hope the development world gets as busy for Gil and his team as it should, but in this environment, if you are considering a big project on a great old course, you must consider Gil.

[PCCraig]

If it's a Stanley Thompson, I think Ian Andrew is the no-brainer, easy answer.

Mark,

No doubt Ian is "the man" when it comes to Thompson, but a local Thompson course in MN, North Oaks, was recently renovated by Tom Lehman and his team which I've heard some good things about.

http://www.duininckgolf.com/pdf/North%20Oaks%20Golf%20Club%20Course%20Renovation%20Preserves%20Tradition%20While%20Amplifying%20the%20Golf%20Experience.pdf

[Don_Mahaffey]

The other items that is critical is the budget for doing such a project.   Certain restorations/renovations turned out great in the last 10 years because the clubs had the money to do it right.  Cal Club and Los Angeles CC spent around $10 million for each.  Imagine if those club only had a $4 million budget?

Joel, when you start adding in irrigation systems with every possible gadget including a network of sensors, sub air units at every green and heating/cooling systems at every green, and all the expense associated with that including the power supply, you can rack up a lot of "non-architectural" expenses. I do not believe a club needs to spend 10 million on a renovation, but you can certainly get there if every tee and green is built to some crazy spec, fwys need to be sand capped, and you need every available appliance. Heck, you could probably go higher then 10 million if you wanted to. But saying a 10 million renovation is automatically better then 4-5 is not a statement I'd agree with.

I think the manner in which a club wants to renovate/restore should also be considered. If your going to just shut down for a year and tear it all up, then I can see using one of the larger construction companies and a more traditional architect...(create construction docs, go to bid...etc...) I'm still a fan of firms who use employees as shapers/design associates (or at least the same independents time after time) but I can understand using a larger company when your in a hurry.

But if your going to do the work piece by piece, hole by hole, I think your much better off going with the architct/shaper and using a small contractor to help fill in. The large construction firms are all about getting in and getting out and they'll kill you with mobilization fees if they have to do much starting and stopping. There are many very talented guys out there who would fit in very nicely with a renovation where the club pays as they go and the timeline is a little longer. As long as you hire the right person to lead the effort, this isn't a terrible way to get some quality work done without going into debt.  
  

[PCCraig]

$10 million?  Seriously?

$10MM seems high, but I suppose those were major renovations/undertakings?

[Mark Johnson]

David Esler.

Love his work at Evanston and Ravisloe; (not to mention Black Sheep and the new 6 at St. Charles)

[PCCraig]

David Esler.

Love his work at Evanston and Ravisloe; (not to mention Black Sheep and the new 6 at St. Charles)

Mark,

What did he do at St. Charles?

Didn't Prichard do Evanston?

[Mark Johnson]

he built the new 6 hole practice course (behind the 9th hole which are probably at least 4 of the best holes on the course).


pretty sure he did evanston.  checked his website and it is on it as well.

[Mark Johnson]

here is a link to a story on the STC holes

http://www.stcharlescc.com/files/Quarry%20Article%20-%20Low%20Res.pdf

[Jeff_Brauer]

I wonder what % of golden age courses still need to be restored, in that many probably have undergone whatever they were going to do in the last 10-20 years.

When is it time to focus on who would be the best at restoring courses of the 50's, 60's 70's and 80's?  Obviously, Rees, Bobby, and their proteges might lay claim to RTJ's work, I can put in bids on Dick Wilson work now, etc.  

If courses "last" about 20 years, its time to start lining up for those architects, and some for the later years.

[Steve Lapper]

Borrowing a similar vein so well expressed above by Jeff Lewis, Jim Urbina has done and still continues to do a marvelous  job restoring Paramount to its Tillinghast form and intent. Like a Gil Hanse, Jim has the right temperament, instincts and experience for this job. His background especially suits him for these kind of endeavors. We are extremely happy with his insightful efforts.