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Ran Morrissett

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Huntercombe course profile is posted ...
« on: November 05, 2011, 10:25:12 AM »
... under Courses by Country and Architecture Timeline.

Piecing together how the tenets of good golf course architecture spread is endlessly fascinating. In that regard, Huntercombe represents a vital piece of the puzzle.

In the 1900/1901 time frame, greens found on inland courses remained unsophisticated. To enjoy the enhanced playing pleasure brought about by great green contours, you needed to play along either coast in Scotland, be it Machrihanish or Prestwick to the west or North Berwick and St. Andrews to the east. The Scot Willie Park Junior became the first to translate what he saw from these famous Scottish links to inland golf. Importantly, he did so in a manner harmonious with nature. His banner year of 1901 saw the opening of Sunningdale, Notts and Huntercombe and it is here at Huntercombe in particular that he enthused the greens with so much character and charm. Others including Paton, Alison, Abercromby, and Hutchison evidently liked what they saw as they joined Huntercombe and in turn spread a most appealing form of architecture themselves. Later, Longhurst picked up the torch and championed Huntercombe as the second best inland course in the UK behind only his beloved Mildenhall.

Located well to the west of London in Oxfordshire, Huntercombe has never quite captured the fancy of as many people as Sunningdale or Swinley or Walton Heath or other name courses in the famous heath belt closer around London. Even Bernard Darwin mysteriously only made glancing  ??? references to Huntercombe in The Golf Courses of the British Isles. Why is that? Certainly, its relatively remote location makes it an outpost as opposed to feeding off being among a cluster of courses. Park found this out the hard way as Huntercombe never became the successful real estate development that he hoped.

Still, his design was immediately heralded by many as a major design accomplishment. While many courses cease being ‘famous’ as they are tinkered with or as time proves the limitations of their designs, that is emphatically NOT the case at Huntercombe. Save for tree growth, it is well preserved and it provides the best insight into Park as a designer as any course with which I am familiar. Just look at some of the fantastic green contours found in some of the photographs – they would be considered bold today but in 1901 they were groundbreaking.

In a piercing example of how design flowed south from Scotland, the influence of St. Andrews is found everywhere within this design from the number of central depressions/hollows to the interior green contours to the number of greens that run from front to back. When layered upon sandy loam like here, those three design attributes are probably the three most important ones to me personally. Indeed, courses replete with such features (St. Andrews, Oakmont, NGLA, Royal Melbourne) are in my personal top five. Of course, many courses in the US built from 1950-2000 went the opposite route. They had hazards to the sides of holes, greens that exchanged contour for speed, and 99.98% of the greens featured back to front slopes with staggering monotony.  :P

As an aside, a tip of the hat to Tom MacWood. His Art & Architecture treatise on this web site was the first place that extolled to me the virtues (and importance) of Huntercombe. His piece remains as thought-provoking as ever and is a must read for those of us that like connecting the dots as to how intelligent architecture spread.

Have a read of both Tom’s work and this course profile and see if you don’t think Huntercombe is greatly under-appreciated as it is both historically important while remaining great fun to play to this very day. Like Westward Ho! which gathered glowing comments from all the great minds after Fowler’s re-work there, not much has changed at Huntercombe since Travis called it ‘easily the best laid out links that I have ever played over anywhere.’

Cheers,

Mark_Rowlinson

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Re: Huntercombe course profile is posted ...
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2011, 10:42:10 AM »
A very perceptive profile, as always. I have a lot of time for Huntercombe.

Joel_Stewart

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Re: Huntercombe course profile is posted ...
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2011, 11:03:36 AM »
Looks fantastic.  A very nice review with what looks like an interesting course.

What was Parks inspiration for building such hollows and why hasn't that been copied or used more?

Joel_Stewart

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Re: Huntercombe course profile is posted ...
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2011, 12:31:31 PM »
They have a nice web site and great greens fees.

www.huntercombegolfclub.co.uk/

Philip Gawith

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Re: Huntercombe course profile is posted ...
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2011, 01:05:02 PM »
Thank you Ran, you have made the members proud!

Scott Warren

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Re: Huntercombe course profile is posted ...
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2011, 01:30:28 PM »
It would be fantastic for this review to boost the course's renown. Lord knows there are few courses so unknown, yet so deserving of praise and attention.

Paul_Turner

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Re: Huntercombe course profile is posted ...
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2011, 04:29:15 PM »
Ran

Great review.

Here are some interesting quotes from the RHK Browning 1950s handbook.

"and when he constructed Huntercombe in 1901, on a scale that may be said to have anticipated the coming of the rubber-cored ball, it caused something of a sensation."

And for a time the double tier greens were not fully in play:

"In many respects Huntercombe was is advance of its time, but in one direction Park's ideas have had to undergo modification.  He was of course, the author of the slogan that "the man who can putt is a match for anyone", and he tried to give the good putters an extra advantage by constructing outsize greens, including one or two double greens with different levels.  These last are no longer in normal use, and the bigger greens have nowadays been sufficiently reduced in size to present a modern sort of target to our approach shots."

So then when Browning describes the then 8th and 9th (now 3rd and 4th):

"At each of the next two holes, Park provided a double green, the two sections lying side by side on different levels; but nowadays in both cases only the left-hand section is in normal use"

I assume all these greens were restored/reinstated at some point between now and then.  But are they full size now?

« Last Edit: November 05, 2011, 04:41:34 PM by Paul_Turner »
can't get to heaven with a three chord song

Paul_Turner

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Re: Huntercombe course profile is posted ...
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2011, 04:33:30 PM »
PS

The photos in the 1950s handbook aren't all that good so not really worth posting.  Although a photo of the old 9th (current 4th) is completely open with huge views over the Chilterns (similar to your pic of the 2nd).
can't get to heaven with a three chord song

Jeff_Mingay

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Re: Huntercombe course profile is posted ...
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2011, 04:39:21 PM »
Absolutely fantastic. Thanks Ran. What a fascinating place, and story. Can't wait to visit Huntercombe someday, soon.
jeffmingay.com

Philip Gawith

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Re: Huntercombe course profile is posted ...
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2011, 05:09:56 PM »
Paul that is fascinating input - would love to see those photos sometime.

The 3rd is a smallish green and it is correct that only the left (more accurately, the lower) side is pinnable, with very rare exceptions. The 4th is not small and both left and right (top and bottom) are pinned.

It would be fascinating to know how much bigger the greens were originally. The course was clearly pretty ambitious in it's first incarnation. There are surely few courses shorter today (by some margin) than 100 years ago.

The 4th and 2nd holes are next to each other so makes sense that in the  old days you also had open vistas from the 4th. The loss of these through poor management of trees is probably the biggest weakness of the course today.

Philip

Sean_A

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Re: Huntercombe course profile is posted ...
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2011, 07:52:00 PM »
Ran

Fine review.  Seemingly impressed with the centre-line hazard theme of Huntercombe, I am surprised you didn't note the 12th.  I think this is one of the best hazard/green complexes on the course - maybe THE BEST. 

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Paul_Turner

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Re: Huntercombe course profile is posted ...
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2011, 08:07:01 PM »
Philip

Browning only has 6138 yds.  Doesn't state which tees but I doubt there was much more yardage if those numbers refer to the "yellows"

The card with the old hole order.  Current hole # in ()

1 (14) 431
2 (15) 171
3 (16) 444
4 (17) 275
5 (18) 327
6 (1) 139
7 (2) 396
8 (3) 375
9 (4) 336
10 (5) 397
11 (6) 522
12 (7) 212
13 (8) 435
14 (9) 369
15 (10) 176
16 (11) 334
17 (12) 410
18 (13) 389
can't get to heaven with a three chord song

JNC Lyon

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Re: Huntercombe course profile is posted ...
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2011, 12:08:21 AM »
Huntercombe!  I'm very happy that this course fell off the "Next Fifty" list and onto the "Courses By Country" list.  What a great place in so many ways.  The architecture is superb, and the way this course presents challenges and tradeoffs without the use of bunkers is incredible.  Some of those grass pits, like ones on 16, have to be seen in person to be believed.

I remember having a great day there with Philp Gawith, Tony Muldoon and Sean Arble.  Sean set up the game with Philip, who hosted, and Tony drove us there and back from center London.  We had a good match, played quickly (Huntercombe is an ideal walking course), and afterward enjoyed tea time with an England-Ireland rugby match.  It was a great day, and a great combination of both golf architecture and GCA hospitality at their best.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Philip Gawith

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Re: Huntercombe course profile is posted ...
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2011, 03:23:03 AM »
Paul I don't have the club history to hand but course yardage c 1910 was more like 6,500 according to the book vs 6,300 now.

George_Williams

Re: Huntercombe course profile is posted ...
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2011, 03:26:01 PM »
OK- since we are two countries divided by a common language, what is the proper pronunciation of Huntercombe?

Mark Pearce

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Re: Huntercombe course profile is posted ...
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2011, 03:36:21 PM »
Hunter-coom
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Giles Payne

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Re: Huntercombe course profile is posted ...
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2011, 03:45:21 AM »
Ran

Thank you for your illuminating piece on Huntercombe. Philip and I always appreciate how lucky we are to have it as our club. When I first started playing golf I constantly wanted to play new courses and could not understand how I could be satisfied playing a majority
of my golf at one club. Huntercombe very quickly disabused me of this idea and always seems to set me a new set of challenges years later.

John Mayhugh

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Re: Huntercombe course profile is posted ...
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2011, 08:24:05 AM »
I really enjoy looking at photos of Huntercombe, and your profile is fantastic.  Sometimes we can complain about photos not properly showing green contours, but Park has the answer - just bigger contours!

I've got to make it there in 2012.

James Boon

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Re: Huntercombe course profile is posted ...
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2011, 11:49:50 AM »
Ran,

Finally found the time it deserved and read through the write up on Huntercombe. Excellent as usual.

And very good of Robin to put himself into all of those tricky positions to perfectly highlight those elements of the course!  ;)

John,

Sometimes we can complain about photos not properly showing green contours, but Park has the answer - just bigger contours!

 ;D

Cheers,

James
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell, Brora, Parkstone, Cavendish, Hallamshire, Sandmoor, Moortown, Elie, Crail, St Andrews (Himalayas & Eden), Chantilly, M, Hardelot Les Pins

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Tom_Doak

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Re: Huntercombe course profile is posted ...
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2011, 08:08:58 PM »

In a piercing example of how design flowed south from Scotland, the influence of St. Andrews is found everywhere within this design from the number of central depressions/hollows to the interior green contours to the number of greens that run from front to back. When layered upon sandy loam like here, those three design attributes are probably the three most important ones to me personally. Indeed, courses replete with such features (St. Andrews, Oakmont, NGLA, Royal Melbourne) are in my personal top five. Of course, many courses in the US built from 1950-2000 went the opposite route. They had hazards to the sides of holes, greens that exchanged contour for speed, and 99.98% of the greens featured back to front slopes with staggering monotony.  :P

Ran:

I think it's probably worth noting that The Old Course at St. Andrews featured "a lot" of back-to-front greens only because it was designed to be played backwards.

I have still never seen Huntercombe and I hope to correct that someday soon.  However, I do question your assumption of its influence.  When poring through those old golf magazines in the basement of the Cornell ag library, I never saw a mention of Huntercombe, and when I was traveling in the UK in 1982-83 and asking everyone I met what I should see, no one bothered to mention it.  It's possible that it had a great influence in the era before World War I, but by the late 1920's it was largely forgotten.  I am glad to see it's having its day in the sun again.

Tony_Muldoon

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Re: Huntercombe course profile is posted ...
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2011, 05:38:18 AM »
Thanks Ran, I totally agree re Huntercombe, it’s one of Golf’s pleasures.  


Surely there is no more deserving figure than Park for a proper book?  You cite The Old Course as a major influence but...

If anyone has the chance of a round with GCA’s Simon Holt ask him about the importance of the Lothian area in the development of golf. Prestwick and St Andrews may have had The Open but the money matches at Mussleburgh and North Berwick were at least the equal of these in importance to the Professionals of those days.  The earlier book on the Family is entitled The Parks of Mussleburgh.


This is the much missed Alfie Ward on the front of Musslebugh’s   5th(?) green that is surely the model for Huntercombe’s eighth.



There are a number of ledges and quite a bit of movement on those Mussleburgh greens, possibly flattened since Park’s day.

This feature is also used on another Possible Park green 17th(?) at West Hill.   I  wish I knew the courses in the Lothians better because I believe that is where Park learned to Putt and likely took his inspiration from.  

Avoid the more recent biography on him, total piffle.
Let's make GCA grate again!

James Boon

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Re: Huntercombe course profile is posted ...
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2011, 06:07:07 AM »
Tony,

I think that's the 6th green at Musselborough. A great green!

You are correct that Willie Park deserves a decent biography, but the recent one, total piffle as you say, has probably meant most publishers wont be interested?  ::) One of the reasons I'm so keen to do more digging on Park at Notts is down to this book, which hardly gives Notts a mention!!!

A decent Willie Park Society wouldn't be a bad thing either! Something Giles and I discussed at Buda this year.

Cheers,

James
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell, Brora, Parkstone, Cavendish, Hallamshire, Sandmoor, Moortown, Elie, Crail, St Andrews (Himalayas & Eden), Chantilly, M, Hardelot Les Pins

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Sean_A

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Re: Huntercombe course profile is posted ...
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2011, 03:12:25 AM »
Tom

Sure there is no proof other than what Travis, Hilton and Darwin wrote about Huntercombe, but given that the following were members: C.K. Hutchison, J. F. Abercromby, Charles Hugh Alison and Stuart Paton, it stands to reason that there must have been some influence exerted.  Take into account the year Huntercombe was built, and that Paton/Low made changes to Woking along the daring lines of Huntercombe, I don't thnk there is any doubt of Huntercombe's influence.  Of course, there could also be some reverse influence as well with Paton on Park Jr, but it must have been most enlightening to see the concepts of centre-line hazards and interestingly contoured greens in the flesh before embarking on the remodel of Woking.  Thats my story and I am sticking to it.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Jeffrey Prest

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Re: Huntercombe course profile is posted ...
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2011, 09:06:58 AM »
Going off at a tangent slightly, I remember reading a book in my youth about two English friends who played each other at matchplay throughout the year, with the winner being he who acquired most wins over the 12 months.

Occasionally the competition took them further afield but most of the rounds were played at their home course, whose name, I'm sure, began with an 'H'. 'Huntercombe' rings a major bell and I wondered if anyone else can recall the book and confirm whether I'm correct.

For all that its subject matter sounds a bit limited in scope, it was a charming read and if Huntercombe was indeed the course, I'd be interested in trying to track down a copy of the book. 

Bill_McBride

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Re: Huntercombe course profile is posted ...
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2011, 10:04:23 AM »
Tom

Sure there is no proof other than what Travis, Hilton and Darwin wrote about Huntercombe, but given that the following were members: C.K. Hutchison, J. F. Abercromby, Charles Hugh Alison and Stuart Paton, it stands to reason that there must have been some influence exerted.  Take into account the year Huntercombe was built, and that Paton/Low made changes to Woking along the daring lines of Huntercombe, I don't thnk there is any doubt of Huntercombe's influence.  Of course, there could also be some reverse influence as well with Paton on Park Jr, but it must have been most enlightening to see the concepts of centre-line hazards and interestingly contoured greens in the flesh before embarking on the remodel of Woking.  Thats my story and I am sticking to it.

Ciao

I was surprised (and disappointed) that Darwin doesn't have a full profile of Huntercombe in Golf Courses of the British Isles.   Perhaps it was a sore subject at the time with the failure of the real estate scheme.