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Sam Morrow

Exceeding Expectations
« on: November 03, 2011, 11:48:34 PM »
I know we have all played courses that were much better than expected and holes that were better than expected. It's great to hear about Pine Valley and those types of place but count me as someone who enjoys finding off the beaten path gems, or courses that are known but better than you ever imagined.

I would love to hear about places and holes that exceeded GCA'ers expectations.

Joe Bausch

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Re: Exceeding Expectations
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2011, 04:50:15 AM »
The Eagles exceeded expectations last Sunday in their complete beat down of the Cowboys.   ;D

Oh, wait, you wanted golf courses.  Recently I played Frog Hollow in Delaware, a Liddicoat and Horn design, a public course within a housing development.  I was pleasantly surprised.  Fun greens and exceptional conditioning for the price (19 bucks via an online special).
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Jon Wiggett

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Re: Exceeding Expectations
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2011, 04:55:00 AM »
Two courses close to me that I played for the first time in the last couple of years that exceeded my expectations were Portmahomack (great little nine holer close to Tain) and Spey Bay which is a solid well under the radar 18 hole links.

Jon

Sean_A

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Re: Exceeding Expectations
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2011, 04:56:53 AM »
Sam

Recently, Cleeve Cloud was much better than I expected.  Great land for golf with a lot of interesting green sites.  

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Exceeding Expectations
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2011, 04:58:24 AM »
Portsalon in Ireland...

Porthcawl in Wales....

JC Jones

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Re: Exceeding Expectations
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2011, 06:26:08 AM »
I've played 2 courses in the last week that have both exceeded my expectations greatly:

1.  The Ocean Course @ Kiawah - I don't know why, but as someone who has held Pac Dunes in their top couple of courses for the last 7 years I didn't expect much from TOC.  I will say now that I am an unabashed lover of TOC and I think their are many aspects of the golf course that are superior to PacDunes (albeit a completely different course and design).  I find that there are very few courses that I have played where the golfer is required to consider his strategy and to plan out his shots more than at TOC.  From the first tee shot to the last shot on 18 the golfer is given several playing options and opportunities for risk/reward.  Moreover, the course is accessible to the higher handicapper from the appropriate tees who plays the course smartly and looks for bogeys when necessary. 

2.  Musgrove Mill - I'd heard nothing but good things about it but I admit to having an anti-Palmer bias prior to having played it.  After playing it this week I am very much impressed.  The routing is superb and it does a great job of working it's way around the property and not having anything that feels forced. The way the holes along the river are integrated with the holes on the ridges is really something great.  And while the greens were running at 13 on Wednesday, they were receptive to a well struck iron shot and provided the appropriate amount of undulation given the speeds.  For those who haven't played MM, it is a real treat.
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Scott Warren

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Re: Exceeding Expectations
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2011, 06:47:02 AM »
Yale. Wonderful set of greens and a heap of fantastic approach shots, 7-15 is an all world stretch.

Golspie. I challenge you to go there and be disappointed.

Peninsula (North). Some of the best land in Melbourne, with great shots on holes of all lengths.

RDecker

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Re: Exceeding Expectations
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2011, 06:52:12 AM »
the course that best fits that description in Mass. is Worcester CC.

Cory Lewis

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Re: Exceeding Expectations
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2011, 06:55:52 AM »
My 2 from this year:

Sebonack:  Several people had told me it was too hard  and that took away from the course.  I found the course to be challenging but also very enjoyable.  I had very high expectations from seeing it in pictures, but even the pictures don't do some of the holes justice.

May River:  I admit to having a slight anti-Nicklaus bias, but this course did not look like a traditional Nicklaus.  The greens were superb and the ground game was very much alive.
Instagram: @2000golfcourses
http://2000golfcourses.blogspot.com

Leo Barber

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Re: Exceeding Expectations
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2011, 07:07:47 AM »
Arrowtown GC, Queenstown NZ.  Layed over beautiful central otago land complete with rocky outcrops and wonderful mountain vistas.  Really enjoyable golf that embraces all the GCA fundimentals.

Tom ORourke

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Re: Exceeding Expectations
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2011, 07:27:03 AM »
I had done a Pinehurst area trip with some friends and Southern Pines was on our list. Before we left our pro told us that it would be our weakest course. I thought it was great fun, an excellent test of your short game, and exceeded all of my expectations. I have had this happen a few times over the years as I live in the Philadelphia area. Everyone knows the biggies, like Merion and Pine Valley. I have found that there are tons of terrific courses "one step down" from the usual suspects. I felt that way about Waynesborough, Overbrook, Whitford, Kennett Square, and Llanerch. Waynesborough was the site of the first win for Chris Dimarco some years ago, and Llanerch held a PGA a long time ago, but the others are fairly low key on a national level. But i would play any one of them any day. I expected Rolling Green and Lehigh and the other Flynn courses to be good before I got there but the others were ones that do not have the same press but are right there.

Mac Plumart

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Re: Exceeding Expectations
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2011, 07:55:47 AM »
Crail Balcomie
Rivermont
Aiken Golf Club

In my opinion, these are all what golf needs more of.

Crail...less than 6,000 yards par 69.  Wonderful golf.  Depsite what the yardage might lead you to believe, it is a challange.  The beauty is amazing.  The routing is special.

Rivermont is simply a gem of a golf club.  Arguably the best greens in Georgia.  Affordable private golf.  And all the little things are done right.  Saturday rounds are tracked by time it took people to play and it is posted for all to see.  And each and every hole is listed as to what club the architect designed the green to be approached with.  If you aren't hitting those clubs into said greens, you need to move up (or back) a tee.  Perfect!!

Aiken...is simply amazing in terms of quality of golf for price paid.  $25 a round walking. 

We need more of these types of clubs in golf.
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

JC Jones

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Re: Exceeding Expectations
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2011, 07:59:08 AM »
Crail Balcomie
Rivermont
Aiken Golf Club

In my opinion, these are all what golf needs more of.

Crail...less than 6,000 yards par 69.  Wonderful golf.  Depsite what the yardage might lead you to believe, it is a challange.  The beauty is amazing.  The routing is special.

Rivermont is simply a gem of a golf club.  Arguably the best greens in Georgia.  Affordable private golf.  And all the little things are done right.  Saturday rounds are tracked by time it took people to play and it is posted for all to see.  And each and every hole is listed as to what club the architect designed the green to be approached with.  If you aren't hitting those clubs into said greens, you need to move up (or back) a tee.  Perfect!!

Aiken...is simply amazing in terms of quality of golf for price paid.  $25 a round walking. 

We need more of these types of clubs in golf.

Mac,

Is Augusta National still in Georgia? ;D
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Exceeding Expectations
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2011, 08:12:16 AM »
Crail Balcomie
Rivermont
Aiken Golf Club

In my opinion, these are all what golf needs more of.

Crail...less than 6,000 yards par 69.  Wonderful golf.  Depsite what the yardage might lead you to believe, it is a challange.  The beauty is amazing.  The routing is special.

Rivermont is simply a gem of a golf club.  Arguably the best greens in Georgia.  Affordable private golf.  And all the little things are done right.  Saturday rounds are tracked by time it took people to play and it is posted for all to see.  And each and every hole is listed as to what club the architect designed the green to be approached with.  If you aren't hitting those clubs into said greens, you need to move up (or back) a tee.  Perfect!!

Aiken...is simply amazing in terms of quality of golf for price paid.  $25 a round walking. 

We need more of these types of clubs in golf.

Mac,

Is Augusta National still in Georgia? ;D

Never heard of it.
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

PThomas

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Re: Exceeding Expectations
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2011, 09:26:37 AM »
another vote for Rivermont

2 more off the top of my head:  Plainfield and Kirtland
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Michael George

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Re: Exceeding Expectations
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2011, 09:29:18 AM »
JC - love your posts, but TOC as an exceeded expectations.  It is top 30 in the US.  Musgrove Mill is more like it.

My list will include some "sleepers":

1.  Treetops Signature.  I thought it was the best course on the property and very underrated.  #3-#7 is a really good stretch of golf holes.  So is #11-#17.  Greens were fun to play.  #11 is one of the best par 3's in the Midwest.

2.  Old Course at Homestead.  It is not a difficult golf course, but it has some really fun holes.  Plus the views are outstanding.  Don't miss it if you go to The Homestead.
"First come my wife and children.  Next comes my profession--the law. Finally, and never as a life in itself, comes golf" - Bob Jones

Mark Saltzman

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Re: Exceeding Expectations
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2011, 09:32:50 AM »
Exceeding expectations is an interesting topic because it has two aspects - the quality of the course and one's expectations.  I have no doubt that Shinnecock Hills is the best golf course I have ever played, but it didn't exceed expectations.  Neither did Sand Hills.

A few that really surprised me:

Old Town Club, NC
Plainfield CC, NJ
Kingsley Club, MI
Orchard Lake, MI (this vastly exceeded expectations)
Wine Valley, WA
Victory Ranch, UT
Kawartha, ON
Coppinwood, ON

Scott Sander

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Re: Exceeding Expectations
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2011, 10:09:59 AM »
For fellow members of the proletariat who stumble across the thread, I'll inject a bit of 'downmarket' into the discussion...

Schaumburg GC - IL - I gave this course no chance.  It's a dully-named muni that used to be a dreadful daily-fee that used to be a private.  It took me 12 holes or so to get over myself and instead become fascinated by it.  It was the first time I'd played a course that actually gave me a feeling that there was much more to it lying just beneath its modern skin.  It still bugged me several days after I played. The nagging feeling of moredom led me to look into the course's completely unadvertised, but, as it turns out, quite interesting history, which in turn led me to... here.  :)

South Suburban GC - Littleton, CO - I was such a snob that the name alone led me to avoid even tryingit for several seasons.  Then, on a desperate day I finally gave it a shot.  Several actually.  High quirk quotient, carnival greens.  It has some truly laugh-out-loud bad moments, too.  But it has just enough silly fun to pop up in my dreams from time to time, 6 years after the last time I played it.

Coyote Crossing - West Lafayette, IN - I can see no compelling reason for this course to be as good as it is.  Somebody took some great land and did not overwork it.  Would play this again over the Kampen Course.  And I really liked the Kampen Course.

The Ross Course, French Lick - I knew I'd enjoy it.  I did NOT expect the course to be kept in 'period appropriate' condition.  It's been several seasons since the renovation, so I expected that by now market forces would have forced the course to monkey with faster green speeds, tighter fairways, etc. in order to appeal to the 98% who don't give a rip about ol' Don.  
Nope.  
It felt all sepia-toned the day I went.  I'm not at all a "canvas bag/gutty/spoon" kind of guy, but out there I really felt like a bit of a tool carrying graphite, titanium, and urethane.  That was very cool.

A second for Rivermont.  And my plays were -before- the renovation!  I love my dad to death and he loves golf to death, but we almost completely opposite tastes in golf courses ("Why do you want to go to this "Brandon" place?  None of my golf buddies would recognize a hat from there.  You really ought to consider the Robert Trent Jones Trail...").  When he told me he'd joined this club called Rivermont in the middle of the north Atlanta sprawl, I had visions of faking a sore hamstring to get out of the back 9.  Well... it turned out to be a blast.  The shame of it is that Dad migrated south a few years ago, so until I sent him a link to a thread here, he didn't know what had become of his old haunt.  I hope he goes back to play some day - from what I've seen here, it could be the kind of experience that could bring us in a little closer alignment in the way we see the game.  

« Last Edit: November 04, 2011, 10:12:37 AM by Scott Sander »

PCCraig

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Re: Exceeding Expectations
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2011, 10:20:11 AM »
JC Jones,

That would be a thread I'd like to see, a comparison between TOC and Pac Dunes.

Scott Sander,

The Ross Course at FL certainly exceeded my expectations as well. It's a ton of fun to play and has a fantastically wild set of greens that I could play over and over. They have a great set-up down there and one that I wish was closer to home.

----

One that exceeded my expectations was Interlachen CC up here in Minneapolis. I don't know why I wasn't expecting much going into my round there (at a Top 50 course no less), but for some reason I expected an old fashion but tree lined "championship" country club course. I was wrong on a few levels there. Short for modern times but just a blast to play with a great set of greens and F&F conditioning. Cool place.
H.P.S.

Mark Johnson

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Re: Exceeding Expectations
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2011, 10:30:23 AM »
my list  (no big name courses here since I pretty much knew what to expect when i play any top 200 type courses


Burl Oaks   (good midwest course with phemomenal conditions in a somewhat remote location)
Prairie Landing
Lakewood Golf Club (clearly the best of the much maligned RTJ trail)
Oxmoor Valley Short Course  (par 3 course with 16 of the holes downhill, but some very interesting green complexes)
Banbury in Boise, ID
Glenmore
« Last Edit: November 04, 2011, 10:55:28 AM by Mark Johnson »

Mark Pearce

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Re: Exceeding Expectations
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2011, 10:31:50 AM »
Yale. Wonderful set of greens and a heap of fantastic approach shots, 7-15 is an all world stretch.
You didn't take my word?
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

hhuffines

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Re: Exceeding Expectations
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2011, 10:37:23 AM »
Ditto on Worcester CC - what a fun and beautiful place to spend a day!

Mark Pearce

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Re: Exceeding Expectations
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2011, 10:38:06 AM »
Charles River was a fantastic surprise.  Not at the top of my wish list when I started to organise a trip to Boston but my first US Ross course and just great fun.  A masterclass in use of land.

Lawsonia Links was a great surprise, too.  I'd expected good but I thought it was great.  Big, bold dramatic architecture and, again, great fun.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Simon Holt

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Re: Exceeding Expectations
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2011, 10:49:27 AM »
Recently,

OSU Scarlet Course- fantastic back 9.
Saucon Valley Weyhill- again, cool back 9.
The Bridge- a great day out with Jeff Warne, just a fun place to be - I had no idea of what to expect.
Muirfield Village- not a Jack fan usually but really enjoyed it, I realise he had someone holding his hand here.
Sebonack- great setting, had heard some grumblings about it but I didn't find it 'too hard' and it has some special stuff out there.  11 is cool as and I love shooting at National's flag on 18.
Trump Bedminster 'Old' - really like the little 3 hole loops within this course, 5-7, 16-18.
River Oaks County Club (Houston)- some really good short 4s.

2011 highlights- Royal Aberdeen, Loch Lomond, Moray Old, NGLA (always a pleasure), Muirfield Village, Saucon Valley, watching the new holes coming along at The Renaissance Club.

Bill Seitz

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Re: Exceeding Expectations
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2011, 10:50:44 AM »
In 2011, I'd say Kingsley and Lawsonia Links.  I expected both to be very good, and both were even better than that.  The one thing that both courses have in common (in my opinion) is that all of the pictures could not prepare me for the scale of the hills and the mounding.  That drop-off to the left of the first green at Lawsonia just feels much larger in person than it looked in the pictures. And the first fairway at Kingsley, those center-line bunkers felt small in the pictures I'd seen, but in person that hill is huge.  

I loved Beverly and the Dunes Club as well, but I had pretty high expectations for both of those, and they delivered.  

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