Behr with me

[Colin Macqueen]

Gentlemen,

I plucked this quote by T.Naccarato from an old thread.

"We now have a spectacular acheivement in reclaiming this testimony to golf in its natural setting, as well as following the wise words of Max Behr, all thanks to Rustic Canyon and its protectors--Hanse, Shackelford and Wagner."

This is one of the four golf courses I have played in the USA and it was a great experience.  The rugged nature of the surrounding landscape and the "waste" and "enviro" areas were novel to me.

Could any of you Rustic Canyon and/or Max Behr afficianados make the connection and point out a few of the course's architectural features that tie in or can be sheeted home to Behr's architectural philosophy of golf being "...as much an aesthetic experience as it is one of skill."

As a bonus your input may well jog my memory of some of the holes that I played 3 years ago!

Cheers Colin

[Mac Plumart]

This could be a great thread, but I'm afraid that the Behr/Rustic Canyon experts don't post much on here anymore.

Tommy N. has left.

Tom Paul has left.

Geoff Shackelford doesn't post much anymore.

I think David M. plays Rustic a lot.

[Adam Clayman]

Colin,
 Your question is impossible to answer. It's not the constructed features that stick out, to identify, but, it's artfulness lies in how everything ties in, or juxtaposes nature, in such a way that it evokes an almost visceral response, either consciously, or not.  The subtle nature of the ravine, on the opener, can't be quantified, or can that little pimple on the green collar, over the hump, on the right front of #2 green. Or, how the course turns back up valley, intimately connecting the entire front nine. None of this will answer your question. Neither will the freedom nor strategic nature of the 11th and 12th. Or the uniqueness of 13. And then the climb to the high point after the par 3, and then it's climactic descent. None of those aspects will help you remember, how subtle the greens flowed, will they?

[Scott Macpherson]

I visited Rustic Canyon this year. I had contacted Geoff S, had a drink with him in Santa Monica, then headed off to see RC the next day. I was very impressed. The course was full of neat holes and subtle features that added to the excitement of the course. Adam, I think you touched on all the low volume interest the course is full of. And as a pay-for-play course, it was excellent value!

It's hard to talk about all the good holes – there were so many – and some really good greens, so perhaps I'll talk about the two holes that didn't grab me. The par 3 green on the 15th hole is too steep with three tiers. If you hit the ball above the hole, it's virtualy impossible to putt down the slope and keep the ball on the green. I think they will adjust this green in the future. The least rewarding hole, at least tee shot, is 16th with its half-pipe fairway. I like the idea of the half-pipe, but it's all downhill all the balls end up in a similar place. It struck me the hole could be better if there was an alternate fairway that pushed left of the ridge and gave you better (risk/reward) shot into the green.

Geoff and Gill did a really good job here and it is definitely worth the visit.

I can't answer the Behr question,other than to say, I know Geoff is a fan of Behr, and I am sure he would have a hand if there is a connection between the quote and the course.

Some photos;
1st Hole 'hairy swale'



The 15th Green (from behind)


A neat green (13th?)

[Lynn_Shackelford]

"If we examine courses in general, we shall find that wherever the modifications of the ground have been so inwrought as to seem inevitably a part of their surroundings, not only are they liable to manifest beauty, but we can be relatively sure the work promises to endure........It follows that when the canvas of Nature over which the club-stroke must pass is filled with holes artificially designed to impede the golfer's progress, these obvious man-made contraptions cause a violation of that sense of liberty he has every right to expect.  This accounts for the checkered history of every artificial appearing golf course."  Max Behr

They moved 11,000 cubic of dirt/sand to build the course.  They didn't shape fairways, they roto tilled and planted seed.

[Mike Benham]

"I do not seek answers, but rather to understand the question."

[Peter Pallotta]

Colin - I can't contribute anything, but Lynn's quote brought to mind what's both so interesting and so challenging about Max Behr. He uses a phrase like "a violation of that sense of liberty [the golfer] has every right to expect" -- and the phrase resonates and fires the imagination and engenders ideas of all sorts; but at the same time it begs the question of what the hell it means! WHY do we have a right to expect liberty on a golf course? WHAT is the nature of liberty/freedom in the context of the sport? HOW does an architect make manifest this ideal? If Behr was just a theorizer, the phrase would still be interesting, but it could then be discounted as the airy conjectures of an amateur; but when this ideas man was also a practitioner, it really becomes interesting.

Peter

[Norbert P]

. . . "a violation of that sense of liberty [the golfer] has every right to expect" -- . . . the phrase resonates and fires the imagination and engenders ideas of all sorts; but at the same time it begs the question of what the hell it means! . . .

 I will not presume to be definitive on your question but, perhaps, liberty, as he uses it, may be an abstraction of the core of truth of the land. Or, phrased differently, he's quite possibly pondering how much honesty is left from the Earth prior to a man's design ideas of improvemnt over that original reality. Colin has presented the perfect modern design for minimalism and the Behr quandary.  I can only surmise that Max had a hard focus on the theme and value of "timelessness";  a word quite often not understood in these times.
 Regardless of all the Top 5000 Lists and all their lemmingish minions,     ". . .  Time is the true judge." Corey Engel

[Peter Pallotta]

Slag - lovely!

Peter

[RJ_Daley]

It follows that when the canvas of Nature over which the club-stroke must pass is filled with holes artificially designed to impede the golfer's progress, these obvious man-made contraptions cause a violation of that sense of liberty he has every right to expect.  This accounts for the checkered history of every artificial appearing golf course."  Max Behr

It seems to me that Max was reacting to the age of geometric artificial hazards being willy-nilly arrayed on pieces of ground to set up a series of unnatural frustrations that was within the era Behr was playing and observing.  I think the liberty and freedom Behr comments that a golfer should expect is that the golfer chooses to go play a ball and stick game outdoors in nature, and wants the freedom to venture forth on that property and negotiate or find his own strategy according to his own abilities and imagination. without being dictated to--- that if you don't do it precisely here; you are penalized by an unnatural contraption.  But, if the land is respected and a route and design of a course is presented without features that demand and insult your sense of nature, it is liberating.  If the challenge hits you over the head, and gives you the feeling you are in a contrivance of frustration, you can't feel free or at liberty to use much imagination to play and invent according to your game mind. 

[Adam Clayman]

Excellent Dick!

I'd add that Behr's connection with the "sportsman" is a reason why that freedom is so very important.

That, and... The sportsman that has evolved, is exactly what Behr warned about.

[RJ_Daley]

Adam, do you think it is possible to characterize or describe the 'sportsman's mindset' that Max left the house with, when he headed out to a club to play golf.  Was he more like a pheasant, or small game hunter that goes out to plot and plan his way around a piece of ground in nature to achieve the goal of bagging a prize or even something he savors for supper.  Or, would hunter have been more of a sportsman in a more competitive sense where he set out for the club to compete and desired to win a match, a skin, or some other competitive goal oriented motivation.

My understanding is that Behr was more the rabbit or pheasant hunter sportsman approaching golf, and it was as much about the experience of going into nature and trying his skills in relation to the puzzle and arrangement of the field of play, as it was about the competition and a sportsman that goes out to first and foremost, win the game. 

Not to say Max probably didn't enjoy his wins or success against old man par,   But I'm not sure he would rather take a win on a schlog of a golf course that was one of those geometric arrays of unnatural barriers, than a loss to another sportsman of similar mindset, on a great walk through a well planned and sited course.

[Adam Clayman]

Dick, It's impossible to know what he thought, actually. I surmize it was more akin to catching a 10 pound fish on a 5 pound line. Testing the sportsman ability, versus, measuring a course with a win or a loss over an opponent. Unless, of course, that opponent was mother nature.

We played the other day in 35mph winds. It was a blast. Over coming the adversity, figuring out the right club and trajectory on every shot (even putting) was simply, what it's all about. For me anyway.

[Norbert P]

  http://www.golfclubatlas.com/in-my-opinion/art-in-golf-architecture-by-max-h-behr/

  Some of Max Behr's thoughts in 1927. Nobody writes with this gracious style anymore.  Except, of course, Dick and Adam.

 A great Shack/Miller book, btw.  Lot's of Behr bytes.