[Mac Plumart]

As I mentioned a few weeks ago, I take notes on many courses prior to playing them, right after playing them, and then a few weeks later.  (I know I have issues    ).

During the post round notes to the time of my follow up notes, I gestate on things and think about the course.  I've noticed an interesting trend that seems to occur during this time frame.  A number of holes that I may have liked or not liked during my round(s) seem to get imbedded in my mind and I can't stop thinking about them.  Many times I don't actually walk off those holes giddy and in love with the hole, two examples of this are:

2 at Sand Hills and 6 at Pacific Dunes.

Both I double bogeyed the first time I played them and left the green muttering to myself.  Subsequently, I thought about the holes over night and played them much better the next time.  However, both of these holes I think about frequently...dreams, nightmares, day dreams...whatever.  I can't get them out of my head.

8 at Ballyneal and 13 at Dismal River are other examples of this fascination with specific holes that I didn't immediately love are, but overtime fell in love with.

Holes that I haven't been able to reconcile with another play, but are constantly haunted by are:

14 at Bandon Trails;
7 at The Honors Course.

Is this the sign of a good hole? 

Do architects/designers strive for a few holes like this in their design?

Are there holes that you guys think about constantly for good reasons and/or bad?

[J_ Crisham]

4th at Olympia Fields North- played it 4 times this year and hit it OB left every time! Wreaked my scorecard each time- was even par 3 of the 4 times- which given the difficulty of #2 and 3 is not shabby for my level of play. Not a very long hole, maybe 380yds or so but very tall overhanging trees up the right side can cause the dreaded double cross. My guess is the better players will cut the ball off this tee to avoid hitting a tree 100 yds off the tee. Very well bunkered greenside. A hole that just jumps up and bites you yet you rarely hear much about it compared to 2,3,7,12,14 or17.

[jeffwarne]

1-18 at Sleepy Holllow

I actually did  live in a huge,creepy old house across the street from Sleepy Hollow which had a graveyard in the backyard......

[Mark Saltzman]

Mac,

I don't know that I have holes that I think about as often as you, but there are holes that I really want to play again.  The think that each has in common is a specific challenge that I attempted and failed.  I question the way in which I played the hole, but more than anything, I want to be in the same situation again and to see if that is how I would want to play it again.

Holes which I played recently which I will think about often:

Shinnecock Hills - Hole 5

Dormie - Hole 3

Pinehurst - Hole 18 (I questioned the way I played it 5 years ago, and I repeated the mistake this morning!)

Old Town - Hole 5

[Mac Plumart]

Jack, I don't know 4 at Olympia Fields.  Is it considered a good/great/average/bad golf hole?  

Mark, I hear you on thinking about ways you played the holes.  13 at Dismal was that way for me for a long time...and that was precisely what I was thinking about...the best way to play it.  I finally have it now for the game I play.

But others are not even about how to play it, specifically.  Ballyneal 8, for example.  I think I was so WOWed by 7 the first time I played it that perhaps I overlooked it.  But right after that trip, I couldn't stop thinking about it.  Was it good?  Was it over done?  Was the green "unfair"?  I've had the good fortune to play it a few more times and I am in love with the hole.  I think about it frequently.

The two recent ones for me are 6 at Pac Dunes and 14 at Bandon Trails.

I walked off Bandon Trails 14 hating the hole.  Thought about it that night in my hotel room for quite some time.  I know I miss played the hole.  Talked to people the next day about it.  We had a nice talk about it on this site.  I know I misplayed the hole (like I mentioned) and want to play it "correctly".  Upon doing that I think I'll come to grips with my decison of if I think it is a good hole or a bad hole.  But in the mean time, I can't stop thinking about it.

6 at Pac Dunes...double bogeyed it at first.  Left a short iron just a smidge short, rolled all the way back to the fairway, and continued to screw the shots up until I finally made my way to 7.  I initially thought that green was to severe, the approach WAY to over done.  Simply a bad hole.  But again...thought about it that night, etc.  Played it the next day.  Pulled driver.  Perfect wedge.  Lipped out 8 foot birdie putt.  Tap in par.  So...that hole can be played and scored on.  Is it good?  Is it fun?  Do I like it?  I can't get the damn thing out of my head.  I think I need 4 or 5 more plays to reconcile this one.

I am thinking this type of stuff means the holes are really good.  Hence the thread and wanting to hear others thoughts.

[J_ Crisham]

Mac,   4 at OFCC North is a good hole that follows 2 great holes. It is a hole that just doesn't fit my eye from the tee. Of the 18 on the North it is probably one of the least inspiring holes amongst a great course. You will have to come up next Summer-it is a pretty special place.

[Joe Sponcia]

Mr. Plumart,

I agree.  Anytime you do a little fist pump internally after a threaded drive or a carefully played 8 iron to a two-tiered green, I would say the hole is good. 

[Mike Hendren]

Not sure about haunted, but I am mocked by the 12th at The Old Course.

Bogey

[jonathan_becker]

Mac,

How did you play 14 at Trails?

[BCrosby]

Bogey -

The 12th at TOC is a terrific little par 4. I don't know why it doesn't get more kudos.

It's one of those holes that gets harder the more you play it.

Bob

[David Hendler]

Mac,

I don't know that I have holes that I think about as often as you, but there are holes that I really want to play again.  The think that each has in common is a specific challenge that I attempted and failed.  I question the way in which I played the hole, but more than anything, I want to be in the same situation again and to see if that is how I would want to play it again.

Holes which I played recently which I will think about often:

Shinnecock Hills - Hole 5

Dormie - Hole 3

Pinehurst - Hole 18 (I questioned the way I played it 5 years ago, and I repeated the mistake this morning!)

Old Town - Hole 5

I played Dormie and Pinehurst earlier this month (both were great!). How did you play those holes and why do you question the way you played them?  Did you go for broke on #3 at Dormie with driver off the tee?  Go for the green in 2 on #5 at Shinnecock?

[Mark McKeever]

4th at Olympia Fields North- played it 4 times this year and hit it OB left every time! Wreaked my scorecard each time- was even par 3 of the 4 times- which given the difficulty of #2 and 3 is not shabby for my level of play. Not a very long hole, maybe 380yds or so but very tall overhanging trees up the right side can cause the dreaded double cross. My guess is the better players will cut the ball off this tee to avoid hitting a tree 100 yds off the tee. Very well bunkered greenside. A hole that just jumps up and bites you yet you rarely hear much about it compared to 2,3,7,12,14 or17.

Good one to noe Jack.  After hole 3, you expect a bit of breather when looking at the card, but that is a VERY daunting tee shot.

Mark

[Kalen Braley]

#18 at Pac Dunes was the hole for me.

It took me months to get that hole out of my mind...

[Mac Plumart]

Mr. Plumart,

I agree.  Anytime you do a little fist pump internally after a threaded drive or a carefully played 8 iron to a two-tiered green, I would say the hole is good.  

Mr. Sponcia...I think you make a great point here.


Jonathan...14 at Trails.  I sliced driver.  One of my playing partners gently faded driver and the other knocked one right down the middle.  We all ended up no more than 5 yards apart in a triangle formation.  This puzzled me a bit as our three tee shots were of wildly different levels of quality but no one was punished/rewarded differently.  Being down low on the right side of the fairway playing to an elevated green with a bunker in front, genius me, decides to fire right at the pin (which was kind of back of the green with the bunker right between me and it).  I go long and have a chip back to the pin with the bunker lurking behind.  I hit a decent bump 7 and it trickles, trickles, trickles into the bunker.  Yada, yada, yada...double bogey.

I think I should have no fired my second shot at the pin, rather played to the front of the green (left of the green from my approach angle), and left myself a pitch/chip/bump and run shot from just a few feet/yards off the green with a lot of green to work with.

Also, I think I needed to aim my tee shot to the bunker on the left side of the fairway.


Oh yeah, one more thing...

During an actual face-to-face converstion with a GCAer this morning, he suggest Sand Hills 7 as a "Hole that Haunts".  And he actually made on the strongest statement I've ever heard in my life regarding the quality and interest of a golf hole.  He said, "if all I could do was play hole 7 at Sand Hills over and over and over again, I still might make the trip to Mullen just for that."

Now THAT is a golf hole...and I agree with him.  But remove the phrase "might make the trip" from my comments and change it to "would make the journey".

[Jay Flemma]

Over the course of his life, one of my friends has left three club championships at NGLA on the 15th hole.

[Colin Macqueen]

Mac,

Holes that haunt me are the ones where "a hint of the hosel" has been effected. Ghastly, frightening stuff.

Cheers Colin

[Mark Saltzman]

Mac,

I don't know that I have holes that I think about as often as you, but there are holes that I really want to play again.  The think that each has in common is a specific challenge that I attempted and failed.  I question the way in which I played the hole, but more than anything, I want to be in the same situation again and to see if that is how I would want to play it again.

Holes which I played recently which I will think about often:

Shinnecock Hills - Hole 5

Dormie - Hole 3

Pinehurst - Hole 18 (I questioned the way I played it 5 years ago, and I repeated the mistake this morning!)

Old Town - Hole 5

I played Dormie and Pinehurst earlier this month (both were great!). How did you play those holes and why do you question the way you played them?  Did you go for broke on #3 at Dormie with driver off the tee?  Go for the green in 2 on #5 at Shinnecock?

David,

At Dormie I hit hybrid both times I played it.  I was last to tee-off on the hole each time and the other guys hit drivers unsuccessfully.  It seemed like it was the only play that made sense (especially because the best angle to the pin was from the right).  In two playings I made 3 and 5, but I'm not sure that is the way to play the hole.  But more than anything, I want to see that green another 100 or so times.  I want to hit approaches into it with all different clubs from all different places to all different pins.  I think that green is either genius or god awful but haven't seen it enough yet to be sure.

At Shinny I had 250 left.  I wanted to lay-up, my caddie said go for it and I did.  I hit it into the front bunker.  From there I hit a reasonable bunker shot to a back pin that wouldn't stop trickling until it was 25 yards away and 25 feet below the hole.  I made 7.  I want to see what it's like playing into that green with a wedge.  Is that green so hard to hit if the pin is not back-right, so close to two dramatic fall-offs.  3/4 of my group was by the green in two and we made 6, 7 and X.  The only 5 was the guy who was in the gunch right off the tee and had a full shot into the green.

At Pinehurst, for whatever reason, I really wanted to make 4 on the historic home hole.  Both plays I challenged the right side, because just maybe then I'd have a short enough shot in to make 3.  The first time I found the fairway bunker, this time the native area over the bunker.  Both times I hit phenomenal shots greenside and 3-putted. Very disappointing.  I don't even know what the 18th looks like if you walk down the fairway.

[Tim Martin]

Although I am a lover of the 18th hole at Yale it has wrecked my card on plenty of occasions. I don`t think I have enough disk space to detail what can and has gone wrong.

[Ronald Montesano]

Mr. Martin...18 at Ely's Course wrecked my round...Check that-I wrecked my round on 17 and 18, where I lost faith in my swing. What a finish to an enchanting path.

Mr. Flemma...Your friend is fortunate to have the opportunity to contest those club championships over such hallowed ground and is fortunate to have you as a friend. Has he adjusted the way he plays the hole as a result?

[Link Walsh]

14th at Tobacco Road.  You drive by that little green by the water on the way in to the clubhouse, so it's almost like a reminder to me before I even tee off that it's waiting for me.  It's a mid-iron downhill par 3 with water short and right.  The green is long, but really narrow.  Don't think I've ever parred it, and consider it a victory to just make bogey.

[Mark Chaplin]

19th at Deal, four up with four to play in the Easter meeting a couple of years ago. Oppo plays the last 4 well to square on the last, I then chunk it left to lose at the 19th.........well played Mr Techner!!

[Harris Nepon]

Mac,

I don't have a large enough group to pick from, but #2 at Sand Hills was my nightmare as well. I played it 6 times over 2 days and my best score was a double, I'm sure I had at least one "X" giving up and picking up.

No matter what I couldn't play that hole well. Granted on the second date the pin was back right which was a nightmare.

Loved the hole and I'm haunted to the day hoping to get another shot at it. Maybe improve to a bogey.

[Mark McKeever]

I need to add the shipwreck hole at Boston Golf Club to the thread.  Its the fifth hole is a short, uphill, nearly drivable par 4 with a very tiny skinny green that falls off to short grass on the left and death to the right, long, and short.  It makes the 8th greens at Pine Valley look receptive. 

I've had a flip half wedge into this green the past two times playing it and have had to settle for a bogey BOTH times.  Hit it long the first time and right the second time.  Both required Phil Mickelson flops to recover.  Just thinking about the hole is unsettling....

Mark

[Tony_Muldoon]

Bogey -

The 12th at TOC is a terrific little par 4. I don't know why it doesn't get more kudos.

It's one of those holes that gets harder the more you play it.

Bob

Agree and agreed.


Bob that's a great golf aphorism.

[Sean_A]

Bogey -

The 12th at TOC is a terrific little par 4. I don't know why it doesn't get more kudos.

It's one of those holes that gets harder the more you play it.

Bob

Agree and agreed.


Bob that's a great golf aphorism.

TOC's 12th doesn't haunt me, I just don't know what to do off the tee.  Unless you are sure you can hit the ball a ton (which I am not), there doesn't seem to be an "easy" option.  This awkwardness off the tee is often lacking in drive/short iron par 4s.  To boot, the approach is quite awkward as well.  Cracking hole!

The hole which haunts me (or has my number) is Burnham's 13th.  In fact, the 13/14 combo drives me to despair.  I doesn't seem to matter if I am 100 yards out on the 13th in perfect position, I find a way to muck it up.  #14 is just a bare knuckle fight type par 3.  The green (and surround) is not designed properly for the angle of the tee shot and prevailing wind.  On both holes, there is very little space.

Ciao

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