[Joe Sponcia]

Gentlemen,

I am currently assisting my club in hiring a new Head Professional.  One of the area's of concern was pro shop sales/lessons and how we are going to help the new pro increase both areas.  I was wondering several things and was hoping for your assistance:

1. How much annually do you estimate you spend with your pro in lessons and pro shop merchandise?  If you don't buy much in merch, where do you buy it?
2. If you don't spend much, what would have to happen for you to start doing so (i.e. pricing/likability/trade policy, etc.)?
3. Does your club offer a "buyer's club" where you pay $100-200 up front and get all goods at cost + 10% or something similar?  If not, do you think the idea is appealing enough, that if you had it, you would spend more?
4. Do you feel obligated in any way to your club pro either because he goes out of his way to help you, or simply because you are a member and members should support their club pro?

Thank you in advance for your responses.

[Carl Rogers]

I am an individual on this site that is even outside the boundaries of the 'treehouse'.   My primordial experiences in the game a long time ago still strongly colors my attitude today.  I am a self taught golfer mid-single digit handicapper from a non-golfing family that did not subsidize golf.  My youth was spent on burned out munis.  I caddied at a fairly snooty club and was treated as a quasi sub-human.

I have yet to understand the ecomonics of a pro shop given the other market options.  My consumer behavior is probably not typical.  I am lucky now much later in life to play on some very good courses at reasonable cost, thus I have no real urge to join a club, though I can afford it.

To address your issue ..... figure out what kind of club your membership really wants and the loyalty issue might work itself out by itself.

[David Harshbarger]

Joe,

I have often pondered this question.

 Access to quality merchandise is not a problem in this day ang is not a problem.

Access to quality services is a problem.

I would encourage you to explore arrangements that allow your pro to spend more time giving away his services on the driving range, chipping area, and putting green, and less time behind the counter of the shop.   I think I'd be really impressed if the head pro and all the assistants knew the pro was working with me on my swing plane, and all were part of the team reinforcing that.  Then, when it came time to buy, I would want them to recommend the clubs based on their intimate knowledge of my game.

I'd want my pro to arrange exclusive demo days.

I'd want sales to then be the byproduct of the services, not the service itself.

[Dan Byrnes]

I take lessons from my Pro or an assistant as needed.  I buy almost everything from the shop.  My main complaint and what causes me not to, is delivery times.  I don't want that new driver in a month i want it yesterday.  So occasionally my equipment comes from elsewhere.  I buy almost golf and everyday clothing, golf and dress shoes from the shop, pretty much all my balls and bags.  I would call myself a strong supporter spending several thousand annually.  Interestingly lots of members go to the local golf galaxy as our old assistant works there even though cost are the same. 

I was also taught when you play a course via Pro to Pro curtosey, you always make a purchase in that shop out of respect and to be sure you can play it again when you want or need to.

As a Pro it's hard to have everyone like you and have everyone support you.   It as much as anything comes down to what is the club unwritten policy.  Sort of what the peer pressure dictates.  At some clubs buying stuff elsewhere is a stigma others its mainstream.

My experience is that you have to be a excellent merchandiser or have a very supportive membership to have a good shop.  Likely both.  Margins continue to fall in golf equipment.  When a pro brings in 4 drivers and is left with one at the end he is break even with the profit being what he can unload the 4th with not a lot of margin there.  The Product cycles like Taylor Made has makes it even harder, the driver he paid full wholesale for in the beginning of the season has been replaced by something else and it's retail price slashed within the same season.

The sucess I have seen is concentrate on the spenders, carry what they want.  While others may complain maybe that the shirts are too much or whatever they have to remember its not a service but a business.  Members assume Pro's make much more than they do in the shop.

A factor is you have to look at spending history of the membership.  Margins aren't  large on most items so the Mill River Plan what the pay a fee and buy at 10% over cost is called requires the member to spend say $700 plus to make that a good investment considering the up front cost.  An option that I have heard is to include the fee in the dues and make it a benefit of membership with the money going to the person who holds the financial liability for merchandise.

Other things you can do to boost the Pro's opportunities is require outing to buy an x dollar a player in certificates, pay all club league and club tournament prizes in credit, have weekend daily games where money is paid in and credit is given out.  Make sure member guest gifts are pro shop ordered and have margins, too much nowadays to control costs Pro is doing this gratis. 

A lot of what can be done is club specific as some places don't want the Pro always hustling for a buck and rather pay a larger upfront salary.  Another thing is does the club want the Pro to play with members and build stronger relationships or sit behind a counter.  Playing with meme is best but there is a cost involved.

As far as lessons have beginner clinics, ladies clinics, maybe men's clinics although I haven't seen much sucess in men clinics.

In the end in my area upstate NY Albany area is seems to me the job isn't what it once was, less money more work and less golf.  There was a day when the Pro had a monopoly on equipment, got the cart revenue and range revenue and it was a pretty good gig, seems to me for the most part those days are gone at most clubs.

Another important factor is does credit expire yearly, it needs to for both the pro and the clubs benefit.  Lowers risk for both.  If your pro quits in the off season members think the club still owes them the credit etc.


Dan

[Jason Walker]

I have issues with my pro and our shop but I still go out of my way to buy just about everything I can there.  It amazes me when people will drive 20 miles away to save $20.  I know times are tight, but seriously?  The attitude i have with the golf shop is the same I have with the shops and restaurants in my town--I may not LOVE them, but I sure would be disappointed if they disappeared, so my wife and I make a point of patronizing them as much as possible, even if it means spending 5-10% more than if we headed to Philly or to the big-box retail establishments outside of town.

[D_Malley]

Jason, what items are you referring to that cost 5-10 percent more at the on course golf shop?

[Jason Walker]

Great question...

I'm not totally certain, but it's what I hear from people as the reason they don't buy items in our golf shop!  Mainly balls, gloves, and select clothing from my understanding, but I don't price shop those so I don't know. There's always a deal at golfsmith or golf galaxy.

[Mike_Trenham]

My question is who is going to own the shop?  The club or the Pro?  If the club owns the shop what is his share of the upside?  As the son of a club pro I am pretty biased on this whole subject.  If the guy does not have a real stake in the shop why should I support the shop if most of the members don't.  Years ago Pros that stayed in the shop too much were criticized for only caring about the shop sales.  Now the clubs own the shops the boards and GMs expect them to never leave the shop.  Selling golf merchandise on grounds is only getting tougher with Amazon etc.

If he will not own the shop give him 100% of the gross profit on corporate orders so members can compensate him.  By the end of my father's time in 1994 the shop was only ok but his corporate business was the savior.  Most of this was from a hand full of members that really liked him and were in position to buy stuff for work giveaways.  They did this for his good not because he had the best price.  I still know their names and can see the logos as that business paid for my college education.  And while all the members got treated well these guys got treated a bit better.

How is your clus's credit as I know some clubs where the pro has stonger credit than the club so the pros are getting the shops back as a shop needs inventory.

Here's another one, how do you handle credit?  Pros will never let it expire or their job security will, but boards could care less, I wanted to order some dress shoes a few years back and was told in December you can only use credit on merchandise on hand.  I know a pro who was fired and on his final day, he added up the credit owed by different members and put the members favorite balls or gloves in their lockers to be fair; oh and this gentleman is one of only a handfull of head pros I know of to a top job  and get another.

If there is a big upside for the new pro make it clear to the membership, if not be careful as they will shop with price in mind.

[Sean_A]

Generally speaking, there is a world of difference between club pros in the States compared to the UK.  Coming from the perspective of not taking lessons (never had a lesson and the closest I have come was from a GCA pro) and buying little equipment, I don't really need a pro or a extensive equipment on hand.  I am much more likely to spend in the shop if I think the pro supports the club well because I do feel an obligation to support club staff - whoever they may be.  My guess is that is the same for most members.  In essence, most of the membership subsidizes the small minority who take lessons and spend freely in the shop.  So for me, the pro has to do more than be a salesman if he is going to be seen as valuable (especially in crunch times).  I know in the States many pros get involved in organizing events, running special deals during comps (corporate outings, invitational days, prize giving, club ambassador etc), helping to oversee caddie programs etc.  Some of these guys are there at sun-up and don't go home til sun-down in the summer.  I have all the time in the world for this type of pro.  In the UK we generally have guys who stand behind the counter unless they are giving a lesson.  That isn't good enough because anybody can sell a shirt and there are plenty of places to grab a lesson - there doesn't need to be a pro on hand for that and I think memberships will look to make savings on cutting the pro if that is their function.

Ciao 

[Jon Wiggett]

Sean,

you are correct that the Pro should be in charge of the daily golfing activities such as tee off times/order on the course, greenfees, competitions, company days, club premotion, etc. If the Pro is not doing this and therefor not the hub of the club the Pro and the club are doing a poor job and equally to blame for this.

Jon

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

At my home club in Sweden, the club pro does not have have any connection with the golf shop. The golf shop appears to be have tendered out to a franchise. Tee times, running events, corporate days, etc. are looked after by those that work in the reception, the club director, and the administrator. The running of competitions (printing of cards, making sure goups tee off on time, checking scorecards, etc.) is the responsibility of a few elder members that do this on a voluntary basis. I believe this is the norm in Sweden.

The pro gives paid lessons to the adults and group lessons to the juniors. That's all I ever see him doing.

On a recent trip home to Ireland, I was chatting to the club pro and a child came into the pro shop and bought a Snickers and a Cola. My first thought was: here we have a qulaifed pro with a skill and a qualification, and his tasks have been reduced to working on the till and answering phone calls. Maybe this is the only way a pro can survive in Ireland, but it just seems to be a waste of education / skill / talent (call it what you want).

I'm not sure what it takes to become a pro, and it probably vairies quite a lot from country to country, but I assume part of the curriculum involves some sort of business training (accountancy, etc.). I'm not suggesting a pro should spend all his time giving lessons, but perhaps pros that have some sort of business education could run the club.

I have never bought anything in my club's golf shop, nor have I ever taken a lesson. I can get my golf equipment much cheaper 25-km down the motorway. I'm that person that might just drive 20 miles to save $20, as long as it does not take me 2 hours to do the round trip; it very much depends on how much of a hassle it is. Yes, I'm a tight ass

[Tom ORourke]

In my opiniion my club does not do this the right way. I am a member at a small private club. The pro is salaried, owns the carts, and the pro shop. He does a horrible job in what he stocks. He has no top of the line golf clubs. There are only a few iron sets in there and they have been there for years and could be found in K-Mart. We do a lot of club events where you win credit in the pro shop. What happens when I want a new driver? The pro will have me go to Golfsmith or Golf Galaxy and he will match the price and order it. The problem is if I see a deal on a closeout item he can't get that club. My main issue is that he needs to put up his own money to buy merchandise to keep in the shop and he just does not do it. I am guessing manufacturers are not sending out clubs on consignment. I spend my credit, I have taken lessons from him, and my wife spends the credit by taking a cart and charging it against our account. I think the club needs to own the pro shop and set up some displays. I don't think you can ask a pro to front the money for things that may not sell. I think owning the carts is a fairly standard practice but we have one of the worst pro shops ever. I support him when I can but he makes it very difficult to do that.   

[Tommy Williamsen]

Pros used to own the merchandise in the pro shop.  That is less true today.  I was taught to support your local club pro. At one of my clubs the merchandise was bought out by the club.  I supported the pro shop more when the pro owned the merchandise. I don't feel the same need anymore.   
What we generally don't know when we visit a club is who owns the shop. 

[Brent Hutto]

I buy probably 6-8 pieces of clothing per year at the club's proshop. So call it a few hundred bucks, tops But it really is the "club's" merchandise. The professional is salaried staff, which is true at most of the private clubs in my area as far as I know.

I also pay them to regrip my clubs every couple of years, I order replacements from them when my wedges wear out and so forth. It is my impression (perhaps wrong) that the pro-shop staff do make some money from those purchases, as opposed to soft goods. But the reason I buy stuff there is because it's the stuff I want. Which is why I only buy a limited number of clothing items there. I only need so much stuff with a club logo on it!

[PCCraig]

Regardless of if the Pro owns the pro shop merchandise or not, his and his assistant's salaries are certainly aided by its sales and makes it easier for the club to justify shop staff. So, while it may not be as direct of a benefit to the Pro as it used to be to purchase items from the shop, it still indirectly benefits him greatly.

[D_Malley]

I asked Jason the question earlier about which items are found at lower prices in the big box retailers as opposed to the on course golf shop?  I have heard this claim since from several other posters, but do not see any actual examples.

Basically what people have these days is what i call "The Walmart Philosophy". "It is always less expensive at the box stores than the mom & pop business."  Do these people actually check prices and compare?  No, this is just a pre-conceived notion and there is no need for these people to compare prices. They think they already know who has the lowest price. This philosophy works very well for the big box stores, but really does not apply to golf equipment pricing.  The mom and pop golf shop can easily compete on price with big box stores, they just will not have as much in-stock merchandise.

I own an on-course golf shop and I would not expect you to purchase your equipment from me unless you are getting the lowest price.  If you want to support me that is great, the best way you can do that is by spending a few minutes to compare prices and having a little patience to wait for a special order shipment.

[Ken Moum]

I asked Jason the question earlier about which items are found at lower prices in the big box retailers as opposed to the on course golf shop?  I have heard this claim since from several other posters, but do not see any actual examples.

I buy golf stuff three ways:

With shop credit
When I find something I like that's on sale
On eBay... if I can get the price i want

I also buy some components, for repair and buidling of clubs.

I have managed to get golf balls with credit most of the time, except my recently preferred yellow Srixon Z-Stars, which I have bought for $25 a dozen on sale at big box stores. Balls are NEVER on sale for a price like that at my shop.

The fact here is that I rarely pay more than about $20-25 for golf shirts and I get some of them on sale at my on-course pro shop.  i also shop the closeout rack at every other course I  play.

I haven't seen a pair of shorts I can wear in a golf shop in about 15 years, and wouldn't pay $50 for them anyway. I buy mine at Target, which stocks my size, and sells them for $10-20.

Ken

[Bruce Katona]

With my former employer, we managed a private club.  The pro shop was merchandized 5-6 times/year.  The club had a young/family membership The gal that did the merchandizing was just a wiz at ordering what her female customers liked.

When I would go to check in, she would grab to to let me know if new soft goods had arrived.  if so, I'd have her pick out a new outfit or two for my wife, since her size (4) would quickly sell out and have it gift wrapped.  The club would bill my account and it would be paid in full the following month.

The wife loved when I would play at the club.  Additionally, when we could play together, it was a course she could manage to get around and enjoy playing as it had very few forced carries, nice wide fairways, green complexes where she could run an approach shot onto the green & a few par 3's where she could hit a short/medium iron onto the green.

The above describes what I believe may be a perfect recipe for a couples/family golf course/club.

[Mark Johnson]

Gentlemen,

I am currently assisting my club in hiring a new Head Professional.  One of the area's of concern was pro shop sales/lessons and how we are going to help the new pro increase both areas.  I was wondering several things and was hoping for your assistance:

1. How much annually do you estimate you spend with your pro in lessons and pro shop merchandise?  If you don't buy much in merch, where do you buy it?
2. If you don't spend much, what would have to happen for you to start doing so (i.e. pricing/likability/trade policy, etc.)?
3. Does your club offer a "buyer's club" where you pay $100-200 up front and get all goods at cost + 10% or something similar?  If not, do you think the idea is appealing enough, that if you had it, you would spend more?
4. Do you feel obligated in any way to your club pro either because he goes out of his way to help you, or simply because you are a member and members should support their club pro?

Thank you in advance for your responses.

1.  Probably around $450-$500;  Mostly gloves and sometime a jacket/shirt for people visiting
2.  N/A.
3.  Yes.   I probably spend more because of Mill River, but it is NOT a good program.  As a result, the pro shop carries very little merchandise and turns into a mail order business.  I would not recommend it.
4.  No.  A bit difference for us since we have a director of merchandising.   Though i think the pro may get a backend of the cars.

[Dan Boerger]

1 - Purchased new clubs this year, so probably spent close to $1k all in for various stuff, including clubs.
2 - n/a
3 - Members get some excellent deals at the club, but not dependent on purchase volume up front.
4 - I think it's incumbent on members to support their club (I belong to a member-owned club). Our pro and his staff do an exceptional job of having quality merchandise in shop and special ordering when needed. I had my clubs fit by the head pro and could not be happier.

[Paul Jones]

I believe you should support your club and Pro by buying merchandise from them.  If something is really overpriced, tell them.  I heard of Pro Shops matching prices to compete with local golf stores.

[JMEvensky]

4 - I think it's incumbent on members to support their club (I belong to a member-owned club).

I agree--and think the member owned part is critical.

I'd guess the responses are very much age related and dependent on whether the club is member owned or not.Older guys would probably be more inclined toward supporting the Pro Shop--they remember when green grass shops were the only game in town.

Those members who buy clubs/balls at a big box retailer and then complain about the Pro Shop are the worst kind of members.They believe the prices are cheaper(they usually aren't) and wonder why the clubs they bought based on the recommendation of a sales commissioned 20 year old don't fit their games.

[Mark Johnson]

4 - I think it's incumbent on members to support their club (I belong to a member-owned club).

I agree--and think the member owned part is critical.

I'd guess the responses are very much age related and dependent on whether the club is member owned or not.Older guys would probably be more inclined toward supporting the Pro Shop--they remember when green grass shops were the only game in town.

Those members who buy clubs/balls at a big box retailer and then complain about the Pro Shop are the worst kind of members.They believe the prices are cheaper(they usually aren't) and wonder why the clubs they bought based on the recommendation of a sales commissioned 20 year old don't fit their games.

I disagree.   I believe it is imperative that the staff at a member owned club are treated well and make a good living.   I disagree that that means supporting the pro shop or ice rink or any other club amenities.

It is unfortunate that some staff's key financial remuneration is dependant on selling things.   I'd rather you raise my dues $40 a month and give the staff a raise than asking me to support a business which is not competitive.

An examples -- a former club of mine used to have a beautiful formal dining room, which was used 3-4 times a year.   It was a money pit.   Instead, we tore it down and replaced it with a less formal room with a pizza oven, pasta bar and great views of the 9th and 18th greens.

Same goes for a pro shop-- if it doesnt do much business,  reduce its size and reallocate space to something that does.

I know in my club, the pro shop does 50%+ of its business on Monday outings.  That's fine, let it make some money and reduce my dues.

[Colin Macqueen]

Gentlemen,
Here in Australia I do all my golf paraphernalia shopping at my club-pro's golfshop (apart from Macqueen tartan trews!). They carry certain lines, Mizuno and Ping, but happily order in anything and everything. They will even, in the shop, go on the Web with you to look at options! The training for a PGA pro here in Oz covers the business and communications side of things pretty extensively.

Paul J,
There is never any harm in asking for a price reduction from your local proshop on most items (just ask any self-confessed "tight-arse" like Donal!). Their mark-up is pretty large to begin with. I worked for 3 months in a (not my present club) golf-pro shop selling apparel and I know what the base price was from the suppliers.......whew.

Cheers Colin

[Brian Hilko]

We do really appreciate when you guys buy from us. We put a lot of time trying to find merchandise that our members and guests will like. My club keeps pricing low so we can pass on value to our members and their guests. Even though we sell equipment for the lowest allowed price by the manufacturers we still lose business to the big box stores. Some members do not realize how well we know there games. We will fit you for free and find something that will really help. We can't rip you off because we have to stand behind our sale. We will see you all the time. Support your local shop. We take pride in our shops.

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