Tucson?

[Bill_McBride]

Going there in early March for three rounds with my brother and our sons. 

If you were to create a matrix of value and fun, what courses would be in the top tier? i. e., what courses would be cheapest while being a lot of fun to play?

Thank for your thoughtful responses.   "Why don't you use the search function, doofus?" is not a thoughtful response, as the Fun/Value Matrix^Tm is a copywrited feature of Bill_McBride.   

[Pete_Pittock]

Tin Cup was partly shot at Tubac GC. The only course I have played there is the Fought/Lehman track at The Gallery. I'll contact a friend who retired there last winter. Signing off to pack for Dixie.

[RJ_Daley]

Wild Bill, do the engines on your G-4 ever have time to cool down anymore?  

I know nothing about Tucson, but will be watching the answers on the matrix because I might get there someday to visit a pal who doesn't golf.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Bill,

I guess a return visit to   Dove Mountain does not fit into your Matrix.  

My suggestions for value/fun are:

Preserve at Saddlebrooke
Saddlebrooke Ranch
Arizona National ( formerly Raven at Sabino Springs)
Vistoso (may not be a value course)

All of these are on golfnow.com

The Tucson munis are good bets too:

Randolph Park North (former LPGA site)
Dell Urich
Fred Enke

[David_Tepper]

Bill -

I played the Fred Enke muni many years ago (15 to 20). I remember thinking it was pretty good and a good value.
It is on the southeastern outskirts of the city, out by the airplane "graveyard," which is a pretty cool site to see.

DT

[Bill_McBride]

Randolph Park is an old Billy Bell gem and will be on the list.   My brother has a house NE of town so will look out there.   

Dove Mountain would be way down on the Matrix^Tm.   Just sayin'.

[Mark Smolens]

No visit to Tucson is complete without playing the 13th hole on the Canyon Course at Ventana -- very easy hole. . . 4th ace for me there.

[Jason Topp]

Bill:

I have had family in Tucson for 25 years so I have played most of the options there.  Here are my reviews and recommendations with price a significant factor:

1.  Rio Rico - Nogales - RTJ course - relatively basic but some interesting holes against a hillside on the front nine.  Price is usually a bargain compared to high end resorts in Tucson.

2.  Munis are of decent quality and very reasonably priced (in order)

     Fred Enke - very quirky target course.  A little less crowded than other munis and a bit frustrating but I enjoy it in no small measure due to price

   Randolph North - strightforward 60's style course, no desert, used to host pga tour event.

   Arthur Pack - ok desert course run by the county. I like it because it seems a little less crowded than the munis

    Del Uhrich - I am not a fan but an enjoyable walk through a parkland course

   Silverbell and El Rio- pretty mediocre and I would avoid


3.  Off the beaten track - Sabino Springs - course is mediocre but the setting is incredible.  It was once the ranch of an old cowboy western star (I cannot remember who).

4.  Green Valley - prices are cheaper than big resorts, courses are tight but well conditioned:

       Canoa Hills is the most popular.  It is usually in great condition but very tight.
       Canoa Ranch - more interesting design for my tastes.  A par 70 with 6 par 3's
       San Ignatius - Arthur Hills

5.  The 9 hole course at El Conquistador is a good value and a fun short par 34 or 35.

6.  Big Resorts - I like them in this order (have not played Dove Mountain or Stone Canyon):

Ventana Mountain
Raven at Sabino Springs (I think it is the Arizona Golf resort now)
Gallery North
Gallery South
Ventana Canyon course
Vistoso
The Arthur Hills course (can't remember the name)
Starr Pass - pretty goofy and chopped up a bit when they added a third nine but fun as long as you do not mind losing some balls
Tucson National - ugly but a good challenge

Private:

Tucson Country Club is a fun old Billy Bell course


Courses I would avoid:

Tubac - used to be a good course but chopped up and turned into 27 to increase housing.  I do not like it as much now and it is was way overpriced last time I visited.

Sunrise and Sunset courses (I think at El Conquistador)

La Paloma - one of the nines is brutally difficult - from the mean Jack Nicklaus years

We can talk more specifics waiting out the rain in Virginia.




   

[Jason Topp]

Bill:

I meant Kino Springs rather than Sabino Springs.  http://kinospringsgc.com/

Fortyniner is also usually a good value

http://www.fortyninercc.com/layout9.asp?id=22&page=570

[Bill_McBride]

Bill:

I meant Kino Springs rather than Sabino Springs.  http://kinospringsgc.com/

Fortyniner is also usually a good value

http://www.fortyninercc.com/layout9.asp?id=22&page=570

As a lifelong 49er fan, I am in!

As a Billy Bell course, it's probably a pretty solid layout too.

[Matthew Petersen]

Jason,

Arthur Pack is now known as Crooked Tree. Not a bad course for the money.

In the same part of town (northwest but not all the way up into Marana) is a course now called Quarry Pines. When I lived in Tucson a decade ago this was a course called Continental Links that tried to replicate links style golf ... very poorly as you might imagine. They have added holes now in an old quarry, eliminating some of the older holes while keeping some. I haven't played it since all that work was done, but while a fairly mediocre course 10 years ago it did have the benefit of being a good value.

I will also second the recommendation of Randolph North and Fred Enke for munis.

Of the resort desert-style courses Vistoso may have both the best design and value (but I'm not sure what the prices are these days ... particularly in the high season).