[Jim Franklin]

Personally I love them both, but a not to be named individual says Pine Valley's hole is great, but Old Mac is the worst hole on that course. I don't understand how someone could hate virtually the same hole. He says you get unfriendly bounces at Old Mac. Well push or pull your drive a little at PV and you are toast. PV certainly requires a more accurate shot. Maybe he hates OM because it does not reward accuracy and a bad drive still gives you a shot at the green. I can buy that theory, but...

[Ben Sims]

Jim,

Other than a drive over some sand an approach to a green lower than the landing area, what's so similiar about the holes? 

I feel like PV #4 is much more brutish, and prefers a long fade off the tee and a draw into the green.  Sahara leaves you in a hole behind a big bunker and blind to the green if you hit a long fade.  Completely different requirements right from the get go. 

I only played the preview 10 at Old Mac, and looking back on the 6 par 4's of that loop, I had #3 better than a few of those.  Is this the same friend that wants to bulldoze Trails?

[JC Urbina]

Jim

Enough with the unnamed individual.

It's getting Old at least that is what an unnamed individual told me.

[Jim Franklin]

Jim

Enough with the unnamed individual.

It's getting Old at least that is what an unnamed individual told me.

Sorry JC, but I am not going to out my friend. I am just discussing his thoughts along with mine with the treehouse. I guess I could start the thread differently if this bothers your unnamed friend.

[Jim Franklin]

Jim,

Other than a drive over some sand an approach to a green lower than the landing area, what's so similiar about the holes? 

I feel like PV #4 is much more brutish, and prefers a long fade off the tee and a draw into the green.  Sahara leaves you in a hole behind a big bunker and blind to the green if you hit a long fade.  Completely different requirements right from the get go. 

I only played the preview 10 at Old Mac, and looking back on the 6 par 4's of that loop, I had #3 better than a few of those.  Is this the same friend that wants to bulldoze Trails?

I find the two holes similar when you look at them from the tee. Both have a large hill to hit over although ones calls for a cut and the other a draw. The approaches are not similar.

[Dean Stokes]

I have never played PV but recently played OM twice in two days. Both Tom and Jim are on this site and could maybe explain the concept of hole 3 to us. Both times I played the hole I hit driver as 3 wood may not have got over the hill to the fairway. Both days my ball was within 2 feet of each other. I had two blind shots over the big trap ahead of me from sand filled divots (because that is where 80% of players hit their 2nd from. Day one I hit the ball to 15 feet and day two I don't think a tour player could have got within 15 feet of the pin.....on a hogs back with slopes everywhere. I hit it to 40 feet which was then difficult to get within 15 feet!!!! Hence a 5. The guys I played with either didn't get up the hill, hit the tree or somehow further butchered a fairly short hole. Certainly not my favorite on the course, it also made me sweat and the poor caddies were everywhere!!!!

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