Bandon Trails - bulldoze and start over...

[Sven Nilsen]

I'll second Terry's comment, the word that came to mind when I first read this post was "idiot."

I'll also back Jud's statement that the course grows on you.  Perhaps this a factor of gaining the local knowledge needed to navigate some of the holes.  The 6th is one of these.  I can understand a first timer complaining about the second fairway bunker there, but if you've played the course more than once and still bitch about it, its really not the course's fault.

I also don't understand how the 14th "rewards bad play."  Seems to me the hole rewards precision (in your line of the tee and your distance control on the 2nd).  Not sure how one could sneak out of that hole with a par with even one bad shot.

I'm not sure if Trails is my favorite at the resort, but its pretty darn close, and has gotten closer to #1 after each repeat.  There is a lot of genius out there, including some subtle use of contours to create shots that do not appear as an obvious tactic off of the tee.

[Sean Leary]

I wonder if he played it more than once. BT is a course that grows on you for sure....

[Anthony Gray]

  Doesn't make since to me. Very pretty course and gets all it can out of the land its on. I think it is genius to risk taking 16 up that hill to provide a tee for 17. I like it the more I play it.

  Anthony

[Michael George]

#3 at Old Mac?  That is even more crazy.  Again, I can see some criticisms of some holes at Old Mac (ie. I have heard complaints that 9 is not a great Cape or that #17 does not give you enough incentive to go right off the tee), but #3 is an incredible hole.

I just organized a golf trip for 28 guys to Bandon.  We played each course twice.  I took a poll after the trip of each person's favorite feature on each golf course and at the resort in general - my own little focus group.

The winner at the entire resort was the moment that people got on top of the hill at #3 at Old Macdonald.  Many people in my group remarked that they had never had an experience on a golf course where the entire course gets presented to you so dramatically as on top of the hill on #3. 

[Jim Franklin]

I agree Michael although the 4th at Ballyneal is pretty cool in the same way. I loved #3 at Old Mac as it was my second favorite hole there behind #7. I really don't understand how someone that claims to understand architecture and golf history and they totally don't "get" that hole hole. We played it 3 times and every time was different and I couldn't wait to see where my ball ended up.

[Mac Plumart]

If they "softened" 16 and "touched up" 18 in the near future, would that give your friends comments some validity?  

Or is he still an "idiot" despite the gist of his comments being acted upon?

To take a comment (most likely taken completely out of context) someone made and make a thread out of it without that person being here to discuss in further detail is ridiculous.

[William_G]

Love Trails!!!!!!!!!!...tough, fun, quirky, secluded...great golf!

Mac..nice to meet you the other day

[Evan Fleisher]

I've only been to Bandon twice (once in 2006 and most recently in 2011 for the KP)...but I had BT as my #1 at the resort form the get-go and I still do today.

In fact, I thought it was quite interesting (and revealing) that at this year's KP a fair number of folks "admitted" BT was their #1 as well!  Maybe it was all my campaigning...or maybe it just is that good!  

[Sven Nilsen]

If they "softened" 16 and "touched up" 18 in the near future, would that give your friends comments some validity?  

Or is he still an "idiot" despite the gist of his comments being acted upon?

To take a comment (most likely taken completely out of context) someone made and make a thread out of it without that person being here to discuss in further detail is ridiculous.

What part of "bulldoze it and start over" was taken out of context?  How could that be taken out of context?

[Carl Rogers]

My diifficulty w/ BT is the walk which for these 57 year old legs, carrying my bag, last February was way too hard plus the fact that it sleeted and rained most of the round.  I think I can separate my walking the course experience from my golfing the course experience.  Bandon is young person's place

BT, for me, is the most visually stunning course out there because of what there was not to work with.  

I have no clue how to hit the 14th green (my index right at 6).  I did not notice 18 very much either, much too too beat up and ready to finish.

[Steve Salmen]

I think Bandon Trails is a good golf course.  The day I played it the greens were running very smooth and fast.  My main problem with the course was severity of the 5th green, more so than the 18th.

That being said, I'll probably never play it again due to it's proximity to the closest thing the US has to true links golf.  I'll travel far to play an exposed links course in the wind (Askernish) but make no effort to play one of the greatest tree lined courses less than 30 miles from my home (Medinah #3).  

Bandon, Pacific, and OM have a special place in American golf that is unique.  Trails is not unique.

[Jed Rammell]

It's my favorite of the four courses . . . and truly the only reason I would go back to Bandon. My 10 round split would be Trails 7 times and Pac. Dunes 3 times. I love everything about it.

[Jud_T]

Bandon, Pacific, and OM have a special place in American golf that is unique.  Trails is not unique.

What a buzzkill...   It is unique in that it's the only course at the resort that gives you some respite from the wind, which makes it the perfect afternoon round on 36 hole days.  Not to mention that it's an infinitely better golf course than BD, but that's just one hacker's opinion...

[Sven Nilsen]

He said there were too many quirly bounces. I think he is nuts.

Did you mean to say squirrelly or quirky?  I guess "quirly" could be a combination of the two.

I wanted to delve into this statement a little further.  Garland's quote is perfect on this point.  

To me, Trails might be the course where you get the fewest "strange" bounces.  Sure, there are contours, but if you know (having played before) or can anticipate (having a bit of imagination) how the ball will play, I don't see how you can call these "bounces" squirrely or quirky.  Probably makes sense to look at a few examples:

#4 - its a hogsback, you can figure it out.

#6 - this one kills me.  I'd bet every caddy at Bandon has uttered the words "second bunker" to each of their loops.  You can either play a safe shot or you can take your chances.  There is nothing squirrelly about it.  The second bunker in the fairway on 6 is one of the best features on any course on the property.

#8 - the entire fairway slopes to the left.  I've never seen a ball bounce to the right here.

#12 - A while back I got into it with a certain strong-opinioned tri-stater (who is no longer active around these parts) regarding the merits of this hole.  There's a secret to playing 12, which is keeping your line into the green within the left third of its face.  The contours reward a shot on this line and leave you the best chance for birdie.  At first glance, the idea of challenging the tree line seems risky, but to get the best results on this hole you need to have the nerve to take on that challenge.

#16 - if you haven't learned to bang your drive up the right side, you're missing the point here.  The green is a bit severe, but if you keep in mind the importance of staying below the hole, it is eminently manageable.

#18 - I'll be a defender on this one.  The last time I played, I carried my own bag, but had the benefit of listening to the caddies accompanying the other three guys in my group.  For each of them, they were given a line on 18 and told they didn't want to be right of that line by much.  Each player hit a drive that flaunted this advice, and all but one ended up having their ball end up in the rough on the right.  I hit a drive a little further to the left from what I would have done on instinct and ended up just fine.

One of the joys of Bandon (PD, BT and Om more so than BD) is trying to figure out the puzzle.  Taking the indecipherable to the eye and translating it into what will work.  There are a multitude of ways to play the holes out there, just as there are a multitude of ways to get into trouble.  To me, Trails is perhaps the most visually deceptive course on the first play, but once you've unlocked the "cheat codes," its a blast.

[Jim Franklin]

Sorry, "quirky" was the chosen word.


He says there is not a course in the top 100 that should have a blind hole or quirky bounces. Wow, Brad has a keeper on his hands. Because Pine Valley has never been called quirky, is his starting point. I would argue that 4 and 8 are blind and somewhat quirky.

[Sven Nilsen]

I think Bandon Trails is a good golf course.  The day I played it the greens were running very smooth and fast.  My main problem with the course was severity of the 5th green, more so than the 18th.

That being said, I'll probably never play it again due to it's proximity to the closest thing the US has to true links golf.  I'll travel far to play an exposed links course in the wind (Askernish) but make no effort to play one of the greatest tree lined courses less than 30 miles from my home (Medinah #3).  

Bandon, Pacific, and OM have a special place in American golf that is unique.  Trails is not unique.

Steve:

I had a hard time deciphering your comment until I realized what you meant to say was that the place Trails holds in American golf is not unique, rather than Trails itself not being unique.  Essentially, you'd rather play "exposed links courses in the wind" than any course with trees, and this preference puts Trails in a different category from the other three and thus not on your radar.

You can't fault individual preferences, but I think the golfer that goes to Bandon and foregoes a round at Trails misses out.  I'd expound on Jud's statement to say that from a GCA perspective, it is worth the time to take in the following:

1.  The routing, the mix of terrain and flora and the journey it creates;

2.  Some amazing bunkers;

3.  A plethora of fantastic green settings;

4.  Some great ground game options;

5.  A few shots you will never get to play anywhere else;

6.  Some truly great golf holes; and

7.  The ability to participate in conversations like this one.  [Don't disregard this point, as the compare and contrast nature of Bandon is part of what makes the shared experience of a golf trip out there very special.]

Sven

[Michael George]

Carl:

I find your comment that Bandon is a young place an interesting one. 

I would agree that the resort is certainly for the young if you are trying to get the most out of the resort for the buck.  In the group that I just had there, there were 4 guys that were 70 years old.  Each just played 18 holes a day and each took a caddie for every round -  while the rest of us played 36 a day and some carried - not me, too lazy.  They missed out on the replay rate and it cost them more to take a caddie, but each of them loved the place.  I do think that your sentiment was being heard out there and that is why the par 3 is now built.

My question when I was out there - were C & C offered the land where the par 3 sits?  The "glamour" of the other 3 courses could have been matched with some of that land.  I don't think BT needs it, but was wondering if anyone knew.

[Kyle Harris]

I just got off the phone with my buddy and he was telling me how bad #3 at Old Mac was too. He says that was the worst designed hole he has ever played. He did not like the fact that you had a blind tee shot to a fairway with so many humps. I told him it was only blind the first time you play it. Personally, #3 was one of my favorite holes on the complex.

Why my buddy is a panelist for Golfweek is beyond me. I guess he wants everything in front of him and to never get a bad bounce or uneven lie in the fairway. I guess that sounds like your typical American golfer. WOW!

Jim:

Ask him why he even bothers to pay a green fee when all he needs is a driving range and a practice green.

[Michael George]

Steve:

I had someone in my group say the same thing.  Then I asked him - what American course is similar? 

It is most similar to the parksland links courses in Great Britain than anything in America.   

I guess, since it is not on the water, you could compare it to other links-like courses in America like Ballyneal or the Nebraska courses - however, they are pretty remote, so I don't know why that would stop you from playing BT.

So, what American courses were you referring to?

[Ian Andrew]

I've got a 9am tee time this friday. Don't start the dozers until I'm done!

Too bad it's not 8:10am the next day - or would be playing together.

[SL_Solow]

I am equally dumbfounded by the remark.  But what i find curious as well is the almost universal attack on thr "unknown rater's" status as a rater.  We continually are bombarded by the suggestion that each of the rating groups has its own form of group think which apparently is enforced by the powers that be at each magazine.  We are told that Brad attempts to impose his views on the group.  Yet when we get one individual who appears to be out of place identifying his prejudices, misguided though they may be, the board is all over him for straying from our orthodoxy.  Those of you who know me recognize that I disagree with the assessment of Trails as expressed by this rater and I disagree even more with the underlying value judgments that created that assessment.  But rating is a matter of opinion.  Clearly he likes different types of courses than I do.  In the end, I suspect his ballot will be an outlier but that is why there are multiple raters.  There are plenty of music, movie and restaurant critics that I have learned to ignore.  I can ignore some architecture critics as well.

[Dean Stokes]

I just had three days there and truly enjoyed the resort. We played Old Mac twice and the others once each. For me they ranked:-

1. Bandon Dunes 2. Pacific Dunes 3. Bandon Trails and 4. Old McDonald.

If I ever learn to post pictures I have approx 100 good ones from the trip.

[Matthew Petersen]

Should this kind of attitude from a rater really be a surprise? obviously some raters feel this way, as it explains the presence in the Top 100 of so many courses that we bemoan here in the treehouse.

[Michael George]

SL:

I am not criticizing him for going against the tide.  As long as a person is reasonable, I understand differing opinions on golf course architecture.  But, his position is not reasonable.  For instance, I enjoy all different types of golf course architecture.  Like most here, I enjoy Doak and C&C, but I also enjoy many Nicklaus and Fazio courses.  I would defend the guy if he was arguing that Muirfield Village, Castle Pines or Great Waters were great golf courses.  Likewise, I would defend the guy if he was arguing that Wade Hampton, Gozzer Ranch, Diamond Creek or Forest Creek were great courses.  But to tell me that Bandon Trails should be bulldozed, that is just stupid.

One guy may like blondes, but if he tells me that Jennifer Love Hewitt is not good looking, I will think he is an idiot.

[Lou_Duran]

I wonder if he played it more than once. BT is a course that grows on you for sure....

Very true for me as well.  I play it like a dog- threw up all over myself taking four to hole-out from just right of the 18th green to lose the hole and the match to a bogey, leaving my fourball partner John Kirk shaking his head in either disbelief or disgust.  Five rounds and I still don't have a clue on how to manage the greens.  I look forward to my next round there.

And who knew that Evan was such an opinion leader!

I don't get those who also take shots at Bandon Dunes.  It's a fantastic course.  Ditto for Old Mac.  And everyone loves PD.  Perhaps having too many good things at one place unduly diminishes one or more by simple comparison.