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Sven Nilsen

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Re: Bandon Trails - bulldoze and start over...
« Reply #250 on: November 04, 2011, 03:15:41 PM »
This is all very interesting to me.   When I played Trails, my caddie urged me to walk the trail.  He told me that he knew I would enjoy the walk and insisted that I do it.  So I have never taken the trolley.  Mac, definitely take the walk.  It is not that long or strenous.

I think the Trails is a fabulous course and a true adventure of the spirit.  Just leave it alone and appreciate the journey.

Bart

Bart:

I'd venture you came across the rare breed of "send my player on a walk in the woods while I have a cigarette" caddy.  Probably not even a golfer.

Sven:

Completely untrue.  I had the same caddy several days in a row.  He had come to understand my love of "the walk" and wanted me to have the best experience possible.  The walk did afford some interesting views of the property and I am not sure that you could get those views from the trolley.

Bart

Bart -

That puts you #2 on my "send them a sense of humor" Christmas present list.  Go back and read my response to Mac and my response to you.  There's a joke in there somewhere.

Nothing in either of those two comments was meant to disparage the caddies as a whole at Bandon.  There's a reason David has lasted six years out there, he's probably an excellent caddy.  If he's the David that caddied for my group in the summer of 2007, I can attest to that.  But there's a fair share of guys who show up out there who don't last, whether it be for inattention, lack of commitment to improving or general laziness.  I've seen enough bad caddy experiences at Bandon to know that a few bad apples slip through.  Those are the guys who don't last six years on the property, the guys who might send their player on a walk to catch a smoke break or the guys who would rush a group around an empty course to get to their pre-planned activity.

Again, respectfully,

Sven

"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Trails - bulldoze and start over...
« Reply #251 on: November 04, 2011, 03:25:15 PM »
Crystal Downs has a pretty long walk between 2 holes early on the back side, but one never hears any complaints about it....

Cape Breton Highlands is another

The Patriot would be very tough to walk...also Blackwolf Run...etc.

...the point being are some of you focusing too much on the walk from 13-14 regarding your overall opinion of BT?
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Joe_Tucholski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Trails - bulldoze and start over...
« Reply #252 on: November 05, 2011, 12:12:50 AM »
So 8 pages of comments and no one agrees with the title statement...I'm guessing the page could go 800 pages and still no one would agree Trails should be bulldozed.

It's interesting to read the varied replies.  Some have stated they think it's the hardest course on the property.  It was my best score of my trip and I thought it was the easiest course on the property.  I'm not sure how much of this is because it is a course that is the closest to what I normally play, the fact that it was my 2nd round (after my worst score of the trip on Pacific) or that the shelter from the wind helps my game dramatically. 

I agree the back 9 is more difficult and has the holes I least liked.  There aren't too many defenders of 18 and it was really the only hole that I disliked.  The other hole that I didn't particularly like was 11.  The water was in my head and I didn't realize the fairway stopped over the hill.  The rough where I ended up was the thickest rough I experienced on the trip and I had a tough time finding my ball.  It's not a bad thing that the rough is thicker...but the fact that I couldn't immediately find my ball right or wrong probably put some negativity for the hole in my mind.  Further the pond just didn't work for me at all.  I can't exactly say why I didn't like it but the portion of the pond near the green was half grown over with some sort of algae (could have been other type of plant) that held up tees and divot repair tools (wouldn't quite hold a ball).

I liked 14 and don't really see it as more than a bogey hole.  Maybe I'll need to see some different pin positions and my opinion will change.  Unfortunately those replays are going to have to wait as I canceled my reservations for Thanksgiving weekend.

Ben Sims

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Trails - bulldoze and start over...
« Reply #253 on: November 05, 2011, 01:14:39 AM »

A person like yourself starting in the field should not limt yourself.  David Kidd is a great gca and Bandon Dunes is a great golf course.  

If Doak or C&C designed the course, people on this site would be lauding it as a must play.  I hear criticisms of #13 being a bland hole, but it is every bit as good as #15 at Pacific Dunes and #17 at Old Mac.  I will agree wth the criticisms of 9 and 18 lacking a lot of strategic value, but I don't think that is enough to totally discard it on a trip.


Michael,

Thanks for your measured response.  I have played Bandon Dunes and feel that time spent there is time away from three other courses that I would describe as among my personal favorites.  

My thought is that Bandon Dunes is a very good American golf course with outstanding views.  But I don't go to Bandon to play American golf.  I can get the ocean crescendos at Pacific Dunes with what I consider to be much more compelling movement and ultimately better golf.  

Let's please keep this with Bandon Trails and how it may be the second most underrated golf course in America please.   ;D

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Trails - bulldoze and start over...
« Reply #254 on: November 05, 2011, 06:38:49 AM »
I also can't really understand the consternation some have with 11.  To me it's extremely well done and one of the more memorable holes out there.  Perhaps one has to be a southpaw to truly appreciate it... ;)
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Tim Bert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Trails - bulldoze and start over...
« Reply #255 on: November 05, 2011, 11:24:08 AM »
Perhaps one has to be a southpaw to truly appreciate it... ;)

Perhaps. But the perceptive southpaws still view it in the bottom third of holes at the course.

Re: Bandon Dunes vs Bandon Trails. To me they are both one time plays per trip.  I always want to see them again but once I play Pacific Dunes again any thoughts of playing either of them twice goes away. If I had to forego one of the two I would drop Trails before Bandon Dunes and I wouldnt spend much time thinking about it.

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Trails - bulldoze and start over...
« Reply #256 on: November 05, 2011, 12:13:19 PM »


If I had to forego one of the two I would drop Trails before Bandon Dunes and I wouldnt spend much time thinking about it.
[/quote]

A bit of a headscratcher, kind of like your musical tastes... ;D
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Tim Bert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Trails - bulldoze and start over...
« Reply #257 on: November 05, 2011, 12:34:46 PM »

If I had to forego one of the two I would drop Trails before Bandon Dunes and I wouldnt spend much time thinking about it.

A bit of a headscratcher, kind of like your musical tastes... ;D


Were it not for your fine taste in northern Michigan golf, I'd say we have damn near nothing in common.  ;)
« Last Edit: November 05, 2011, 12:44:22 PM by Tim Bert »

Brad Isaacs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Trails - bulldoze and start over...
« Reply #258 on: November 05, 2011, 12:41:20 PM »
Jud,

While I have always agreed with you about Trailsvs. Bandon Dunes, it is getting closer.  THe gorse removal is getting out of hand on Bandon Dunes.

Tim Bert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Trails - bulldoze and start over...
« Reply #259 on: November 05, 2011, 12:47:20 PM »
Jud,

While I have always agreed with you about Trailsvs. Bandon Dunes, it is getting closer.  THe gorse removal is getting out of hand on Bandon Dunes.

Your first and second sentences seem to be contradictory unless I am misreading the tone of your second comment and by "out of hand" you think that's a good thing.  Unless you got confused and you are agreeing with someone other than Jud, who clearly prefers Trails.

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Trails - bulldoze and start over...
« Reply #260 on: November 05, 2011, 06:43:22 PM »
I played Bandon Trails three times this last month.  I think I like it better than the average GCA contributor, perhaps now a "9" in my book, versus a rating of "8" a couple years ago.

I learned something important during my last round there.  From the green tees, I used 3-wood off the tee on holes #1, #4, #6, #13, #14, #15 and #18.  I found that it was ideal because it a) left me just short of trouble and/or b) was enough club to easily clear a ridge and reach the downhill slope.  On #4, #6 and #18, I cleared the trouble and had a gap wedge and two sand wedge approaches.  On #13, it went far enough to leave a 6-iron on #13.  On #14, 3-wood to the right side leaves a full sand wedge, one's best chance of making par or bogey.

I shot a stress-free 80, going 0 for 7 on birdie putts inside 25 feet.  It made the round easy.

I can even see using 3-wood on #3, #10 or even #11.  Also, #12 is often a 3-wood par-3 hole.  I was able to swing freely and positively at the ball.  The 3-wood sprays the ball much less.

The greens at Bandon Trails were kept very fast this fall, perhaps 11 feet on the Stimpmeter.  This course has some of the hardest to read and most difficult downhill putts I've ever seen.  Staying below the hole and wide of the big trouble is essential to an enjoyable day.

Another thing I saw.  The bunker sand is very soft, and less than aggressive efforts with the blade wide open go nowhere.  It takes a couple rounds to learn to hit these shots harder, with a less lofted approach.

Along with Pacific Dunes, Bandon Trails is the most beautiful course in Oregon, and one of the ten most beautiful courses I've ever seen.

Norbert P

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Trails - bulldoze and start over...
« Reply #261 on: November 06, 2011, 03:26:48 PM »
So a friend of mine just returned from his Golfweek rater retreat at Bandon and I asked him what he thought of the 4 courses. He loved Pac Dunes, really liked Bandon Dunes and Old MacDonald, but hated Trails. He said they should bulldoze and start over. . . .

Your nutty friend should be bulldozed.
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Trails - bulldoze and start over...
« Reply #262 on: November 06, 2011, 08:59:35 PM »
John,

I like 3 wood off the green tees on #1, 6, 15 and 18..but it all depends on the conditions of course...

I like to challenge the right side on #4 and 13

thanks
It's all about the golf!

Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Trails - bulldoze and start over...
« Reply #263 on: November 07, 2011, 10:05:31 AM »
So a friend of mine just returned from his Golfweek rater retreat at Bandon and I asked him what he thought of the 4 courses. He loved Pac Dunes, really liked Bandon Dunes and Old MacDonald, but hated Trails. He said they should bulldoze and start over. . . .

Your nutty friend should be bulldozed.

My nuty friend had his nutty friend contact me to tell me his displeasure for the course as well. He said he loved the greens, holes 1-3, but the rest were junk. He did not like the fact that tee balls all came to rest in the same spot. I did not notice that in my group.

They were both offended I asked them what other C&C courses they played.
Mr Hurricane

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Trails - bulldoze and start over...
« Reply #264 on: November 07, 2011, 10:25:48 AM »
So a friend of mine just returned from his Golfweek rater retreat at Bandon and I asked him what he thought of the 4 courses. He loved Pac Dunes, really liked Bandon Dunes and Old MacDonald, but hated Trails. He said they should bulldoze and start over. . . .

Your nutty friend should be bulldozed.

My nuty friend had his nutty friend contact me to tell me his displeasure for the course as well. He said he loved the greens, holes 1-3, but the rest were junk. He did not like the fact that tee balls all came to rest in the same spot. I did not notice that in my group.

They were both offended I asked them what other C&C courses they played.


My, my, my. Now we have the ingredients for a full-blown fruit cake.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Eric Olsen

Re: Bandon Trails - bulldoze and start over...
« Reply #265 on: November 07, 2011, 05:02:30 PM »
My brother just left me a message that he heard Bandon Trails was going to closed next winter for renovation.  He called to make some winter reservations next year, but no one at the reservations desk or the Trails clubhouse knew anything about the closing.  Any one here know what's up with this?  10, 14, 18 and maybe 16 seem like the most likely changes. 

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Trails - bulldoze and start over...
« Reply #266 on: November 07, 2011, 05:03:43 PM »
My brother just left me a message that he heard Bandon Trails was going to closed next winter for renovation.  He called to make some winter reservations next year, but no one at the reservations desk or the Trails clubhouse knew anything about the closing.  Any one here know what's up with this?  10, 14, 18 and maybe 16 seem like the most likely changes. 

Post #30 may hold some clues.
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Trails - bulldoze and start over...
« Reply #267 on: November 10, 2011, 09:44:29 AM »
If they "softened" 16 and "touched up" 18 in the near future, would that give your friends comments some validity?  

Or is he still an "idiot" despite the gist of his comments being acted upon?

To take a comment (most likely taken completely out of context) someone made and make a thread out of it without that person being here to discuss in further detail is ridiculous.

Speaking of post #30, I never called him an idiot in my original post. His comments were not in any way taken out of context. He hates Trails and that is his opinion. He does not participate in this forum, oh well. He is the only person I ever heard hate Trails so I started the thread. I have laid out his reasons why. I don't agree with them. I loved Trails and all of its quirky bounces.
Mr Hurricane

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Trails - bulldoze and start over...
« Reply #268 on: November 10, 2011, 09:50:19 AM »
Jim...

It turned out to be a darn good thread.  IMO. 
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Trails - bulldoze and start over...
« Reply #269 on: November 10, 2011, 12:32:24 PM »
Bandon Trails belongs in every U.S. top 100 list, for beauty and strategic merit.

My primary criticism is the difficulty of the first two tee shots for the mid-handicapper.

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Trails - bulldoze and start over...
« Reply #270 on: November 10, 2011, 12:57:55 PM »
John,

Speaking as the average hack, I enjoy 1&2 and didn't find them overly penal.
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Trails - bulldoze and start over...
« Reply #271 on: November 10, 2011, 01:39:19 PM »
John,

Speaking as the average hack, I enjoy 1&2 and didn't find them overly penal.

If 1 was penal for me, it was the approach, not the drive. Of course, I did not choose driver for the tee shot. Why would you if you're not accurate with it?
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Trails - bulldoze and start over...
« Reply #272 on: November 10, 2011, 02:23:20 PM »
Bandon Trails belongs in every U.S. top 100 list, for beauty and strategic merit.

My primary criticism is the difficulty of the first two tee shots for the mid-handicapper.

Hey,

Whats wrong with hitting the mid-to-highish capper over the head on the 1st two holes, so they know right away they will not be breaking 90 on this day?    :-\   :'(

Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Trails - bulldoze and start over...
« Reply #273 on: November 10, 2011, 02:42:01 PM »
Again, my friend's biggest complaint is that wayward drives and good drives end up in the same place so the good golfer is not rewarded. I did not find this to be true when I have played the course.
Mr Hurricane

Matt MacIver

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Trails - bulldoze and start over...
« Reply #274 on: November 10, 2011, 02:55:17 PM »
As a mid-high 'capper I had no problems with the first two tee shots, thought they were fair. 

Interesting that as a resort course BT gets more interesting and reveals itself more with multiple plays...sort of like a great private course.  I hope enough people keep playing Trails so that it's global opinion continues to rise. 

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