Meddliing Green Committees-What is the strangest alteration you have seen?

[Randy Thompson]

With all the renovations going on in the States, I think the general public and various committees are learning that design is better left to professionals and these committees can really screw up a good design. I will think twice and maybe even ten times before getting involved with another renovation in South America. It like going back fifty years in the US when the meldeling was at an all time high. Whatīs the strangest thing you have seen. I will go first, thank god this quirk has been removed in recent years and I can now make fun of it. The most prestigious  club in Chile had a small sand bunker underneath some trees on a par three and was always messy. So they cemented that baby in with a nice drain in the middle and filled it with six inches of water...nice!

[john_stiles]

Wow !    You might not find anything to jump your story.  Yours is like a  Bob Beamon record which might not be beaten in 23 years.

So I'll post,   just so the inquisitive will think someone is actually adding to your thread.


But I would guess there will be the odd tee work, or maybe bunker work,  that will come within a few feet.

[Tom_Doak]

The worst thing I've ever seen done to a good course was a green chairman deciding to reduce the size of a par-3 green by stripping sod off part of the green and just leaving it bare, flat sand as some sort of hazard.

Not quite as silly as Randy's example, but this was done to the 13th green at Hirono -- one of the top 50 courses in the world!

[Randy Thompson]

I have another one, done to one of my courses. Par five, water in front of the green extending toward the second landing area.Yes I know water sucks but this was before my GCA days. They put up hockey rink boards to stop the balls from going into the water. I guess I deserved that though.

[Mark Johnson]

4 cuts of progressive rough...

[john_stiles]

Bow wow,  Hirono is in first place since it was on a green, and not under a tree.

[Peter Ferlicca]

I don't know who was in charge of it, hopefully not an established designer.  At Red Hill Country Club in Rancho Cucamonga, CA which is a pretty decent George Thomas design, the first hole is a downhill 270 yard par 4 that doglegs right.  It is driveable by the mass, so someone decided to put a little 2 foot shallow pond about 10 feet by 10 feet on the right side of the green, it looks like absolute crap.  On top of that, for some reason the water was very dirty and yellow, it looked like it was a peeing urinal for the members who didn't go in the clubhouse. 

[Garland Bayley]

I have another one, done to one of my courses. Par five, water in front of the green extending toward the second landing area.Yes I know water sucks but this was before my GCA days. They put up hockey rink boards to stop the balls from going into the water. I guess I deserved that though.

Yes you did!

[Michael George]

An interesting question would be why courses make these terrible decisions.

I have seen many area courses remove bunkers lately because of maintenance costs, which is unfortunate.  For instance, Little Mountain CC in Concord, Ohio, a pretty good golf course designed by Hurzdan/Fry (except the crazy walk between 14 and 15), has removed some really interesting bunkers for this reason.

I have seen others where the greens committes change things because the green is "too difficult" - in other words, the chairman cannot shoot what he used to and therefore the club has to smooth out false fronts or sides or shallow bunkers.  This is much more of a greater concern for me, as it is not driven by economic necessity.  Right or wrong, whenever I hear someone say a green is "too hard" and needs to be changed, I think "they are going to make the green a lot less fun"

[Mark Johnson]

while not an alteration, I've seen a chairman of a greens committee demand that the rough was cut wednesday morning on all holes-- because his regular game was wed afternoon...

while it may not have impacted playability that much, it generated a shitload of costs since our greenkeeper had to bring out a full crew for that time.

[Joel_Stewart]

I saw a pretty strange site a few weeks ago in Northern California when a golf course constructed a swimming pool next to a tee in the middle of a golf course.  The objective was not to have anyone swim, but to have a fountain and let birds swim.  Instead of digging a normal ditch with water, they bought one of those huge kidney shaped fiberglass pools and dropped into a hole.  Just recently they filled it in but over filled the edges and now have it planted with roses.   

On another hole they moved a green back about 50 yards about 5 years ago but left all the bunkers from the previous green intact???

[Sean_A]

One of the strangest things I ahve seen on a good course is the pond on Camberley Heath's 16th. Some Japanese chaps bought the club and need a Koi pond - heavy sigh.  What is really odd is the pond is on a high part of the property. 


Ciao

[Mark McKeever]

Table Rock Golf Club (just outside of columbus) has a large mulch pile with flowers planted in the middle of one of the fairways.  There is also a par 5 on the back nine that pinches in at around 280 where a pond comes in.  The remaining part of the fairway is cut off by a pile of stones and four larger rocks.  You have to see it to believe it.

Mark

[Ken Moum]

According to one of our older members, at some point in the late 1960s, someone with earth-moving equipment apparently volunteered to "improve" the donald ross course where I currently play.

It's not easy to figure out what all he did, partly because there's no good course history, and anything the club had was lost in a fire in 1987.

But one thing i have figured out that he ruined a pretty interesting hole.  

Our second hole is pretty boring. It has OB left, and a modest width of fairway.  The green is fairly close to the OB line but not really threatening.  There is a small, flat, left-side fairway bunker and a huge left-front greenside bunker that conspire make it clear that you want to drive it right. to approach the green from the right side of the fairway.  

Although the general slope of the green site is towards the OB, the left side have been built WAY up to make the green flat.

IOW, it's "right there in front of you."

But 60 years ago, the fairway was very wide, but it was mowed right up to the OB and there was no fairway bunker.  At the green, a right-front bunker was the main hazard.  Oh, the green was also much smaller and built on grade to be sloped from right to left.

So standing on the tee, the inviting option was to play out and away from the OB.  But if you drove it there, you were left with an approach over a bunker, to green that sloped way from you.

OTOH, if you hugged the left side and risked going out of bounds you'd be left with a dramatically less difficult approach.

I am SURE that the clown who did was thinking, "Hey, if I hit it over here where i am supposed to, I get a hard second shot and  that's just not fair."

1948:

1970:


This is today

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Shawnee+Country+Club,+913+SE+29th+St,+Topeka,+KS+66605-1399&hl=en&ll=39.00973,-95.662556&spn=0.002147,0.007306&sll=39.010567,-95.665516&sspn=0.008587,0.02105&vpsrc=6&hq=Shawnee+Country+Club,&hnear=913+SE+29th+St,+Topeka,+Kansas+66605&t=f&z=18&ecpose=39.00973194,-95.66152301,614.15,-90.573,0.113,0

[Garland Bayley]

One of the strangest things I ahve seen on a good course is the pond on Camberley Heath's 16th. Some Japanese chaps bought the club and need a Koi pond - heavy sigh.  What is really odd is the pond is on a high part of the property. 


Ciao

Unfortunately, there are GCA's that build ponds in play on high parts of the property. Does this make gravity flow for irrigation possible?
Playing a course west of Spokane, I hit my drive right, which took me by surprise since I usually hit it left. I saw it was headed towards a pond. Imagine my surprise when the ball hit the bank of the pond and bounded away towards my fairway. Two holes later we were playing to a par 3 across this same pond whose water was made to defy gravity by being blocked up on top of the hill.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I cannot top these but will say it is wrong to thing greens committees have learned anything from past mistakes. New members of committees who have no interest in learning from history will make the same mistakes again plus new ones of their own.

[Randy Thompson]

Back around 1973, 74, 75 when everyone was still cutting at a quater of inch, a guy decided he wanted firm and fast greens for the memeber guest during July 4th weekend. He owned a company that constructed roads and he brought in a steam roller and rolled the greens. Poa greens in JUly steamed rolled. Pretty much fried them. He is the guy that we can now thank for ultra fast greens, canīt remember the name of him, oh, maybe it was Bob Stempmeter, yes I think it was! Anyways not 100% sure of the name but I think it was Ludlow Country Club.

[Philippe Binette]

Planting trees in straigth line along the fairways and putting flower bed around the tees... many committees have done those two.


Why do they make mistakes ?

1) Perception: Because most people think designing a golf course is easy. It is not, most architects have a degree in Landscape architecture and/or also spent years studying golf courses.

2) The lack of distance toward the course: Since they spend some much time on the course, the members tend to forget what they have... Example, plenting rows of trees that 5 years down the road will hide the view of a lake or some cool feature on the prooperty. They also focus on their game, not everybody's game.

3) The lack of foresight: the committee often focus on one problem. It takes experience to understand the global picture an the overall impact on the course of doing something on one hole. Then you put in the time factor, what will it look like in 30 years, they are lost.

4) Don't fix what ain't broken... self explaining

5) It's not because you've seen it somewhere else that it's good for your course.

[Peter Ferlicca]

I got a picture of the infamous water bunker on #1 at Red Hill Country Club courtesy of Jon Spauldings photo thread in 2007.   As you can see the little pond looks absolutely horrible.  And, it has that nice yellowish color

[David_Elvins]

According to one of our older members, at some point in the late 1960s, someone with earth-moving equipment apparently volunteered to "improve" the donald ross course where I currently play....

Ken,

I think it is quite a common feature, these days, where once players were tempted to drive close to OOB, now everything is done to direct them away from OOB.  An unfortunate reality as more traffic and houses sit next door to golf courses and the liability associated with golf balls leaving the property increases.

[Alister Matheson]

MANY YEARS AGO NOW  but the greens commitee at Brora decided to plant trees behind the 8th Green.

To say they looked out of place and even out of this world on the links is an understatement !

The tree`s did not survive the sandy infertile soil ,harsh salty winds or the brush cutter ringing there bases.

[Sean_A]

Speaking of trees, Edgbaston must take the cake with a andful of serious transgressions.  

On an otherwise very good par 3...


Hole designed to offer a view of the stunning house...but instead...


Even if the house wasn't meant to be on display here...it should be...


It is obvious why the house should be on display...to me anyway...they can't even keep trees off the front of the house!


Ciao

[Garland Bayley]

Sometimes it is so called golf course architects that screw things up.

My club built its clubhouse on the highest point on the property not already utilized by golf holes. The dining room was situation to have a view of Mt. Hood. Some years later a golf course architect was hired, who specified planting trees behind greens to "provide definition" (I've read his master plan). Guess what the trees behind the 9th green have done as they have grown.

You got it. They obscured the view of Mt. Hood from the dining room.