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Malcolm Mckinnon

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Say you're playing in a foursome with three of your buddies, when one of them lines up a putt,
takes his stroke ... and doesn't even get the ball to the hole. What do you say?

Well, one possibility is, "hit it, Alice !" Another is, "nice putt, Alice !" The derogatory " Alice " statement has
been part of golf for decades. But who is Alice ? And what did she do to get immortalized in a golf insult that
frequently follows a putt left short?

Contrary to one frequently offered explanation, this " Alice " has nothing to do with the Jackie  Gleason sitcom The Honeymooners. Gleason was a golf fanatic, and his character on the show, Ralph Kramden, played golf, too.

Ralph's wife was named Alice . It's a good guess, but the phrase does not refer to Alice Kramden.

It turns out that " Alice " isn't a she at all. " Alice " is a he, and it's not " Alice", it's  "Alliss", as in Peter Alliss.
 
Peter Alliss is the famous English golf broadcaster, the voice of golf on the BBC for decades.  But before he became internationally famous as a broadcaster, Alliss was famous in Britain and Europe as a touring pro. And a pretty good one, too: Alliss won 21 times on the precursor to the European Tour and played on eight Ryder Cup teams.

At the 1963 Ryder Cup in Atlanta , Alliss played Arnold Palmer and Tony Lema in back-to-back singles matches and won 1.5 points, halving with Lema and beating Palmer. At some point during his match against Palmer, Alliss - for whom putting was not a strength - badly missed a 3-foot putt. Someone in the gallery yelled out, "Nice putt, Alliss!" Alliss described that moment in a brief article in a 1997 issue of Sports Illustrated, and
explained how the phrase became part of the golf lexicon:

The BBC, for whom I now do  golf commentary, played a large part in burning the phrase into the public consciousness. I was never renowned for my putting and therefore was an easy - and frequent - target for the many comedy programs on the "Beeb," where great humor was found in such
knee-slappers as "That girl Alliss sure hits it a long way." So BBC programs of the early to mid-1960s liked to get punny with Alliss' name and its homonym, the female monicker Alice . Ah, that good ol' golf humor: questioning a man's, well, manliness for leaving a putt short by calling him a woman's name. They did it in the 1960s and they - ahem, we - still do it today. Except that today, most  golfers - most of those outside of Britain, anyway - have no idea that "Alice" is actually Peter Alliss. But now you do.

michael damico

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Re: Etymology of the derogative "Alice" in golf, the real story...
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2011, 12:37:32 AM »
Malcolm, this puts a smile on my face; thank you.
"without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible"
                                                                -fz

Colin Macqueen

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Re: Etymology of the derogative "Alice" in golf, the real story...
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2011, 12:55:32 AM »
Malcolm,

I love that sort of, I suppose, really useless information but I had no idea of the term's etymology (always assumed it was Alice) and I am the richer for now knowing this!

I guess if you do golf commentary for the BBC you will know of this wonderful piece of commentary by Peter Alliss.

In days of yore running naked at sports events was a bit of a hoot. At any rate some sun-stroked individual in a major British golf tournament (was it an Open, dunno?) made a dash, in naked glory, across the eighteenth green. An uptight, sorry upright, American golfer (any of you guys in the USA know who?) tackled this blighter and brought him to the ground! Now what to do?  Ahh, ahh the British bobbie comes to the fore and this Peeler with terrific imagination, hauls the little devil to his feet, and covers his man-hood with a copper's helmet whilst escorting him from the field of play. However folklore, I believe, has it that there was an ever so quick glimpse seen of the chap's wee prick. Now Peter Allis filled the void, so to speak, and immortalised himself when over the air, with Auntie and millions worldwide listening in, commented " My, my, my what a big, big fuss over such a little, little thing."

Never forgot it.

Michael does that put another smile on yer dial!?

Cheers Colin
"Golf, thou art a gentle sprite, I owe thee much"
The Hielander

Kalen Braley

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Re: Etymology of the derogative "Alice" in golf, the real story...
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2011, 06:39:10 AM »
Malcolm and Colin,   good stuff indeed.

I've always preferred the quick quip that I heard first from Pat Mucci in a GCA thread long ago.  After his playing partner left yet another putt short, he inquired:

Will your husband be playing with us next week?

Tim Martin

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Re: Etymology of the derogative "Alice" in golf, the real story...
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2011, 07:06:20 AM »
Malcolm,

I love that sort of, I suppose, really useless information but I had no idea of the term's etymology (always assumed it was Alice) and I am the richer for now knowing this!

I guess if you do golf commentary for the BBC you will know of this wonderful piece of commentary by Peter Alliss.

In days of yore running naked at sports events was a bit of a hoot. At any rate some sun-stroked individual in a major British golf tournament (was it an Open, dunno?) made a dash, in naked glory, across the eighteenth green. An uptight, sorry upright, American golfer (any of you guys in the USA know who?) tackled this blighter and brought him to the ground! Now what to do?  Ahh, ahh the British bobbie comes to the fore and this Peeler with terrific imagination, hauls the little devil to his feet, and covers his man-hood with a copper's helmet whilst escorting him from the field of play. However folklore, I believe, has it that there was an ever so quick glimpse seen of the chap's wee prick. Now Peter Allis filled the void, so to speak, and immortalised himself when over the air, with Auntie and millions worldwide listening in, commented " My, my, my what a big, big fuss over such a little, little thing."

Never forgot it.

Michael does that put another smile on yer dial!?

Cheers Colin


Colin-Peter Jacobsen was the tackler and if I`m not mistaken Fluff Cowan was on the bag with the event being the British Open. I always enjoy listening to Peter Alliss who has a wry sense of humor and plenty of valuable insight honed from years as a player.

Niall C

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Re: Etymology of the derogative "Alice" in golf, the real story...
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2011, 08:22:34 AM »
Malcolm and Colin,   good stuff indeed.

I've always preferred the quick quip that I heard first from Pat Mucci in a GCA thread long ago.  After his playing partner left yet another putt short, he inquired:

Will your husband be playing with us next week?

Kalen

In all my time playing golf, I've never ever heard the Alice/Aliss line but the "does your husband play golf" line comes out quite a bit. The other one, when leaving a putt short is to exclaim that "I'd have been better swinging my handbag at the ball rather than a putter".

Niall

Kalen Braley

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Re: Etymology of the derogative "Alice" in golf, the real story...
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2011, 10:17:16 AM »
Malcolm and Colin,   good stuff indeed.

I've always preferred the quick quip that I heard first from Pat Mucci in a GCA thread long ago.  After his playing partner left yet another putt short, he inquired:

Will your husband be playing with us next week?

Kalen

In all my time playing golf, I've never ever heard the Alice/Aliss line but the "does your husband play golf" line comes out quite a bit. The other one, when leaving a putt short is to exclaim that "I'd have been better swinging my handbag at the ball rather than a putter".

Niall

I've heard the Alice one a few times.....

With the group of guys I normally play with, thier favorite seems to be:

"Putter got caught in your skirt?"

Garland Bayley

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Re: Etymology of the derogative "Alice" in golf, the real story...
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2011, 12:41:36 PM »
Colin,

Now let's not be dissing Portland's own Peter Jacobsen. If you know him, you could hardly call him up-tight. He likes to point out that he owns the tournament, season, and career record for tackles on the PGA tour.

"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Jim Nugent

Re: Etymology of the derogative "Alice" in golf, the real story...
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2011, 02:54:13 PM »
There is another side to the story.  It seems centuries ago, the name "Aliss" was spelled "Alice."  Rather than suffer the inevitable barbs (think "a boy named Sue"), the ancient ancestors changed the name to its current spelling.   8)