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Brian Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Tom Doak does it again...barnbougledune
« on: January 03, 2002, 09:31:39 PM »
It looks like Tom Doak has done it again and received a new piece of great golfing land.  It looks awesome on the website.

http://www.barnbougledunes.com/

Tom,

When is it going to be finished?  Or when is construction starting?

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Shane Gurnett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak does it again...barnbougledune
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2002, 09:55:45 PM »
Cant wait to see how this shapes up. This part of Tasmania is a breathtaking, untouched part of the world. Great to see Mike Clayton involved as well (good one Mike).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Paul Daley

Re: Tom Doak does it again...barnbougledune
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2002, 10:02:19 PM »
Brian:

Your eyes are not deceiving you; it is indeed a wonderful stretch of linksland, complete with the natural ingredients to make golf lovers' turn a blind eye to the travel aspect.

Ask Mike Keiser about 'remoteness' - it can be a blessing in disguise. And yet, remoteness is a relative term; in this case we are only talking about 45-60 minutes from Launceston (the nearest city) after the 40 minute flight from Melbourne has been taken care of.

A young Tasmanian dynamo named Greg Ramsay is in the best position to answer your questions, re: timing and construction.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Greg Ramsay

Re: Tom Doak does it again...barnbougledune
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2002, 10:21:53 PM »
Hello there Brian, I am developing Barnbougle Dunes.  We were raising some of the finance for constructing the course through the sale of Founders Bonds (40 year exemption from green fees, invites to exclusive Bondholder events).  But while we have signed up many people to buy the bonds, actually launching them has been delayed.  

Much to my surprise (and my lawyers) the government have judged that free golf is a dividend, and we have to abide by certain corporate legislation relating to managed funds before making the bonds available.  My lawyers anticipate this will be through by late January.  All very frustrating!  We received planning approval last September (held up for a while by an endangered frog) and had hoped to start construction by November but this whole issue has been a 'spanner in the works', putting the project back a year.  I wish I had just launched them, and tested the wrath of the government, they have already approved 2 golf developments with identical offers (but at 5 times the price).  In the meantime I am in negotiations with some big players who are interested in becoming involved in the project.  We have nearly 1000acres of dunes with 7km of beach frontage secured, so we hope to do at least 2 courses and some sort of accommodation, just like Bandon Dunes.  Will be a great attribute for the region's growing tourism reputation.

How did you come across the website?  

Greg Ramsay
www.barnbougledunes.com
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Brian Phillips (Guest)

Re: Tom Doak does it again...barnbougledune
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2002, 10:50:28 PM »
Greg,

You posted it yourself on the Golf Architecture Magazine thread!! ;D

About the government:

It is sometimes best to be forgiven than to ask permission and be turned down!!

What made you go for Tom Doak and not anyone else?

Good luck with the project.

Cheers Brian.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak does it again...barnbougledune
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2002, 11:18:28 PM »
Brian:

There are two people I'm really wishing well on Barnbougle: Tom Doak and Greg Ramsay.  I just don't know who I'll be most excited for.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Tim Weiman

A_Clay_Man

Re: Tom Doak does it again...barnbougledune
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2002, 06:00:18 AM »
Are they really gonna put in residences? :'(
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Greg Ramsay

Re: Tom Doak does it again...barnbougledune
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2002, 02:06:25 PM »
Mr Clayman, what on earth gave you the impression I am looking to put in residences???  I have discontinued discussions with several interested investors because they were so adamant on selling condos just outside the dunes.  

One of the high profile firms (you guessed it, an American co.) that I may still work with would love to put in some sort of residential development, but fortunately I just can't see the local government's planning scheme permitting a residential development.

To answer your query Brian, I went for Tom because I wanted a student of the game and its playing fields to build a golf course that would endure longer than the brand names and hype surrounding some other alternatives.  In my opinion, the Australian golf course designers are at the forefront of their profession worldwide, but I think Tom Doak's courses speak for themselves and I really wanted someone fresh in this part of the world.  Most of Australia's other designers have already had lots of exposure, whereas this will be Tom's first course out here- and he brings an international following.  His design partners, Mike Clayton Design are wonderfully complementary- they have done fantastic work in the Melbourne area, are highly professional and have a high profile locally.  Both firms find golf courses as opposed to building them.  If you could see our routing and walk the land, there would be an awful lot of excitement in your trousers!

look forward to sending you and 3 mates off on the first tee in a year or so!

Greg Ramsay

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Brian Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak does it again...barnbougledune
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2002, 02:17:27 PM »
Greg,

Just looking at the website gets me exited.  Did the Greg Norman boys try to get the project?

I think that Adam thought that the residences are what was mentioned in you post earlier:

We have nearly 1000acres of dunes with 7km of beach frontage secured, so we hope to do at least 2 courses and some sort of accommodation, just like Bandon Dunes.  

When an American see that I think they get visions of real estate.  When an Aussie says accomodation to me it could mean a couple of 4 XXXX's and a sleeping bag!!

Look forward to hearing more about it in the future Greg and good luck.  I work in the construction of golf courses so I understand the amount of b**sh*t people like you have to go through.  Often the ones that fight the most against such projects are the asking for freebies when the project gets the go ahead!!

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Greg Ramsay

Re: Tom Doak does it again...barnbougledune
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2002, 02:33:18 PM »
Brian, we're looking to put in some minimalist 5-star eco-lodges, set back well away from the golf course.  I have the western 7km's of a remarkable 34km long beach without a single public access point to the beach!  It is dunes all the way, but the remaining 27km are fortunately all Coastal Reserve, so as well as golfers, we want to cater for eco-tourists who want to do naturalist tours of this wonderfully diverse coastline.  It is crawling with Wombats and the giant Forester Kangaroos.  

Untouched dunes are a very rare eco-system in the world nowadays, and I am lucky that our site is being degraded by the farming use of it, and that it has been colonised by introduced Marram grass (a weed which gives it its real Irish feel) otherwise I may have struggled to get planning approval and have 11 holes running right along the ocean!  One of the most spectacular features of the second site are some huge sandblows, and a 1200acre moving dune that is fortunately moving inland, away from my site!  I just hope there are no Aboriginal artefacts to be found.  There was a very active aboriginal tribe in this area until the 1850's by when they had all died out or been taken away.



« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

A_Clay_Man

Re: Tom Doak does it again...barnbougledune
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2002, 05:43:48 PM »
Actually I mis-read it on the founders bond link that said the rate would be determined by residence. That is where I stopped reading. I have since reread and apoligize for the mis-understanding.
No wuckin furries!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Richard Chamberlain

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak does it again...barnbougledune
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2002, 06:48:16 PM »
Firstly, Greg I cannot believe you are only 24. Your thought process towards this process, and obviously much of what you do, would appear to be from a man with many more miles on the clock.

Secondly, and of a very critical nature....those teasing photographs on the website must be able to be viewed at a higher resolution.
Can you please create another page on the site with those images in "full blown" mode...they're fantastic.

Best of luck with it all.

PS. Now if you can only get Boony involved in the PR it will really fly.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Greg Ramsay

Re: Tom Doak does it again...barnbougledune
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2002, 07:56:34 PM »
I will certainly be trying to get Boonie (David Boon, Tasmania's most famous cricketer) involved in raising the profile of the development.  He is a mad keen golfer, Ricky Ponting is also very good, playing off a handicap of 2 or 3.

As to your questions regarding the higher resolution, there may be something better at www.ausgolf.com.au/tasmanialinks.htm
they are certainly bigger images, not sure if the resolution is any better, in fact I think its worse.

Greg Ramsay
www.barnbougledunes.com
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mark_Huxford

Re: Tom Doak does it again...barnbougledune
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2002, 08:47:40 PM »
Greg, probably a couple of stupid questions but I'll ask anyway... :)

Where does the name Barnbougle come from and how do you pronounce it?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak does it again...barnbougledune
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2002, 09:22:56 PM »
Greg Ramsey, congratulations on an exciting and outstanding plan!  I wish Florida and Tasmania were not so far apart!

I hope you have been to Bandon Dunes to see the two courses and the excellent facilities which Mike Keiser has built there.  The hotel / cottage accommodations are just right in that they are not plush but are comfortable and are very golf oriented.  There is nothing going on at Bandon but golf.  I spent a very rewarding four days there in August with my brother and another friend and everything was perfect considering the long trip to get there.  That trip will of course be nothing to Americans compared to a trip "down under" plus the trek out to Tasmania!  But I predict this will be a goal of many.  Congratulations on your choice of Tom Doak and on your vision of a golf mecca.
Bill McBride
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Greg Ramsay

Re: Tom Doak does it again...barnbougledune
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2002, 01:45:06 AM »
Mark, The land I have leased for the Tom Doak golf course (280acres of dunes, 40 year lease, 3km of beach) is on the farm ‘Barnbougle’.  Like so many other areas of Tasmania, this region was settled by Scots who arrived in 1826.  They were from Barnbougle Castle, just west of Edinburgh (near the airport) and hence named their grant ‘Barnbougle’.  

However I may yet change the name of the facility to Tasmania Dunes Golf Links.  I am in discussions with a few well known golf development companies, and one of the potential investors will want to change the name to Tasmania Dunes- I agree with them that ‘Tasmania’ is the brand that will catch people, and they also claim that as you have queried, Americans will butcher the pronunciation of ‘Barnbougle’ (pronounced ‘Barn- boogle’).  So it may yet be the Tasmania Dunes Golf Links with the Barnbougle course and the Lost Farm Course (I have an option on the neighbouring 650acres of dunes, with 4km of beach, which is called ‘The Lost Farm’.  So named because the dunes are so big that they used to lose a lot of cattle in all the gulleys.)

I personally like Barnbougle because it is authentic and has a Scottish ring to it, I mean if golfers can somehow pronounce Machrihanish and get it right, surely Barnbougle is no real challenge!  

Bill, I will be hoping to get to Bandon soon, it has provided some proof to the many 'knockers' that as long as the golf course is good enough, golfers will travel far to play!  And we are only a 50min flight from Melbourne, only 14hrs direct from San Fran or LA- closer than Scotland from the west coast I expect?

I am thrilled to hear from people who have now visited both Barnbougle and Bandon, and that ours is certainly the equal, perhaps even better!

Thanks for the interest

Greg Ramsay
www.barnbougledunes.com
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

redanman (Guest)

Re: Tom Doak does it again...barnbougledune
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2002, 03:30:29 AM »
Stick with simply Barnbougle.  Pay homage.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Brian Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak does it again...barnbougledune
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2002, 03:37:28 AM »
Greg,

I agree with Redanman, stick with Barnbougle.  I would change your logo to maybe something a bit celtic looking.  I also think there is too much colour in the logo..

How about something in dark blue like the Scotland rugby team colours...?

Just an opinion.  Tell me to shut up if you want ;)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:01 PM by -1 »
Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Mark_Huxford

Re: Tom Doak does it again...barnbougledune
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2002, 03:45:21 AM »

Greg, funny you should mention the name change because I had a good feeling about Barnbougle actually. I think you will find most of the world top 100 courses don't have generic names. I'd say stick with it. People will really like it.

Mark,

PS:

L.A. - Edinburgh, 8,300km
L.A. - Hobart, 12,787km

Just off the top of my head and all :-)

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Greg Ramsay

Re: Tom Doak does it again...barnbougledune
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2002, 07:07:53 PM »
I have no doubt that Scotland is closer to LA than Tasmania is, but i understand that to get to Edinburgh from LA, you have to stop in either Chicago and go direct to Heathrow from there, or alternatively stopin New York and direct to Heathrow from there- amounting to around 13-16hrs depending on stopover time, from where you then have to catch a 1hr flight up to Ed'burgh, again depending on stopover time.

However from both LA & San Fran you can go direct to Melbourne in 14hrs, and then a 50min flight down to Tasmania.  So, if not quicker, it certainly involves less stopovers.  Can you fly direct from West Coast to London, and if so, how long does the flight take?

Either which way, if you want to escape the US in your winter for a touch of links golf, then I can't imagine anyone wanting to travel to golf in the UK winter, well give me 5 years and Tasmania will be a legitimate links destination- you should see some of the other duneland and linksland sites I have signed up/lined up.  And of course, the Nthn. Hemisphere winter is our summer.

Greg Ramsay
www.barnbougledunes.com
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak does it again...barnbougledune
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2002, 07:15:23 PM »
Greg,

I really hope you will stick with Barnbougle.  It's perfect!

"Tasmania Dunes" just doesn't sound right.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Tim Weiman

Ben Cowan-Dewar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak does it again...barnbougledune
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2002, 10:24:32 PM »
Greg,
When I first came across you awhile ago it was the name that was the drawing point.  Stick with that, I will write a letter of support to the developer... ;)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Greg Ramsay

Re: Tom Doak does it again...barnbougledune
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2002, 04:52:56 AM »
Brian, regarding the logo.  I take on board that my logo is a lot ‘louder’ and more colourful than most of the fairly staid, conservative, ‘private country club’ kind of imagery we get around the place, but I don’t want to try and create a homage to the links courses of Scotland, or appeal to that private country club set- I’m hoping to create a new and fresh links golf destination, somewhere that is known for its accessibility, affordability and fun.  I’m really trying to mix the superbly natural links courses of UK & Eire, which fit so perfectly into the dunes, with the Australian laid back welcome and our surf culture!  Tasmania might have the coolest climate in Australia, but its still the same as Spain’s or Northern California’s.  When golfers come to Tasmania they won’t get the old secretarys giving them the up and down and fleecing them of half their wallet for a game of golf, the clubhouse sign reading ‘No dogs or women allowed’, nor will they have to don rain gear very often and play through the mist.  Don’t get me wrong, when I lived in St. Andrews nothing thrilled me more than going out at dusk and playing in a stiff, freezing breeze as the hargggh rolled in off the sea, or trekking down to Muirfield to silently whisper in the dining room surrounded by oil paintings of past golfing greats and royalty, but Tasmania will simply never be able to offer that golfing heritage or old world atmosphere.  The seaside links courses will be just as special for all the same reasons, but the golfing experience will be just as good for different reasons.

I used to surf when I was young, and I’ve always likened the quest by passionate golfers for hidden gems, for wonderful golf courses in remote locations, to be like the surfer’s search for the perfect wave.  What else would put a place like Cruden Bay, Machrihanish, Rosses Point, Cape Breton Nova Scotia, or Bandon on the map?  Where the journey to, is part of the experience, to be enriched in a wonderfully natural setting.  Whether it be golfing or surfing- you just feel exhilarated to be alive!

I could really go on here, but it is also no coincidence that many of the worlds great dunes are formed where there is great surf!  Dunes are like waves, and they are formed by the swell rolling in and depositing sand, which builds itself up over the sea level.  Where links golf falls short in comparison with surfing is that surfing is free and for all to share (but is always better when not too crowded), and the natural forms of waves cannot be tampered with by heavy handed developers or designers, unlike some of our great coastlines which have suffered from some unsympathetic golf developments.  That is where golf lost some of its soul, when mankind, in its neverending quest to be the master of its own environment, started using bulldozers to build golf courses.

I have said my piece, I’ll now finish watching a Michelle Pfeiffer and George Clooney film.  Us Westerners, we're all the same!

Greg Ramsay
www.barnbougledunes.com

‘hear the sounds of the sea,
and the cresting wave
taste the salt on the breeze
on a crisp sunny day

plot your way round the links,
bump’n’run to the flag
and you’ll catch yourself think
‘....i’m alive
and i’m glad’
Ratho, Bothwell, 2002
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Brian Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak does it again...barnbougledune
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2002, 05:32:13 AM »
Greg,

Totally agree with you and what a way to think.  This sort of post proves to me that age has no restriction on dreams or beliefs or what is possible if you truly believe.

I have copied the post and will be keeping it on the computer to give me a kick up the arse on days when I feel like giving up trying to become an architect.

You are an inspiration.

Again good luck.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

BillV

Re: Tom Doak does it again...barnbougledune
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2002, 06:16:07 AM »
LAX to London (Did it one time), was leave 5:30p arrive 8am next day,  also DIA to London was 3:30p to 6:30a the next day.  Less than 1 hr to Edinburg from there.  Played The Old COurse at 3pm on the DIA trip.

Westbound travel really screws up the time clock for me more than the other way.  Anyone else?

Look forward to Barnbougle some day.  Simply barnbougle.  :)  As for logos, etc, the simpler the better.  I get so tired of these complicated ones although the simple one for Victoria National is a three bagger, too, so go figger.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »