[Jon Wiggett]

Sean,

whilst in the Sates there might be no point in distinguishing between munis and other types of publics I beg to differ here in the UK.

As I am sure you are aware having lived in Britain for a while most brits would define public courses as those that are affordable for the average man in the street. Courses such as KB or CS whilst being open to all, are at a price which most average golfers will not pay. I very much doubt many would agree with you that they are public (atleast not in spirit and generally brits tend to view things on the spirit rather than technicalities of the offered product). It should also be noted that such courses do not see themselves in the Joe public golf scene.

Jon

[Tim Martin]

Sean,

whilst in the Sates there might be no point in distinguishing between munis and other types of publics I beg to differ here in the UK.

As I am sure you are aware having lived in Britain for a while most brits would define public courses as those that are affordable for the average man in the street. Courses such as KB or CS whilst being open to all, are at a price which most average golfers will not pay. I very much doubt many would agree with you that they are public (atleast not in spirit and generally brits tend to view things on the spirit rather than technicalities of the offered product). It should also be noted that such courses do not see themselves in the Joe public golf scene.

Jon

Jon-In the U S there is certainly a difference between a muni and other types of public courses. My understanding of a muni or municipal is a town/city owed golf course that is usually affordable and easy to access. There are the exceptions such as Bethpage Black but that is more a result of the cache from the U S Opens that have been held there. A CCFD or privately owned public is almost always more expensive than a muni so I agree that there are certainly different avenues to take and all can`t be lumped together. Accessability as anywhere else would have to do with the perception of value or basic supply/demand. Does a muni also mean town/city/county owned in Great Britain or is it just a general term for a public golf course?

[Kirk Gill]

The Denver golf market might serve as a decent example of a good balance between public and private golf. I'm not so familiar with the private side here, but there seems to be a decent number of them, and they verge from well known historic layouts to ones that are comfortably anonymous. The public options vary from ccfad-types to inexpensive munis -  and lots of options in between. The economy has obviously put pressure on all, but if you want to play golf here you have lots of quality opportunities at almost any price you want to pay.

[Jon Wiggett]

Tim,

muni is a shortning of municipal and is used for courses owned by the town/city but also by many for any cheap GF facility. I have no real knowledge of the US market in these matters.

Jon

[Andy Troeger]

Pete,

I've mentioned it before, but Indianapolis is darn close when comparing privates to publics. Granted, Crooked Stick and Wolf Run are probably (haven't played them) separated from the field, but the third ranked private course near Indy (at least by GD), Sagamore, in my opinion is no better than the city's best publics; The Trophy Club, The Fort, Brickyard, Bear Slide, etc...

That said, Indy has far fewer ODG classics than many cities, with Broadmoor (Ross) being the most notable exception...

This doesn't really work. I think Wolf Run and Crooked Stick are WAY ahead of everything else, and you can't not include them just because you haven't played them. Yes, after those two its pretty close, but you can add a lot of cities into the mix if you take out their best courses. CC of Indianapolis and Meridian Hills are good too, although neither matches up with The Fort which I think is the best public in the area.

Indianapolis and Denver do have a lot of good public golf at reasonable prices--I think both are more appealing than Phoenix/Scottsdale, except for the winter weather. Denver is an interesting one because the best private clubs in the rankings (and I agree) are mainly cart-oriented courses except Cherry Hills. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if some folks here would prefer a place like CommonGround over them. I still think Castle Pines, Cherry Hills, Ravenna, and Sanctuary create some separation between public/private. I've heard good things about Denver CC too but haven't seen it.

[Matthew Sander]

Andy,

I don't know why you think I didn't include Crooked Stick and Wolf Run. In fact, I stated that even without having played them I assume they stand alone at the top of the field, perhaps miles ahead. Maybe my wording was a little sloppy, but I was by no means excluding those two clubs. I just think it is fairly rare in a major city that you only have to go two courses deep before the public and privates are virtually equal if not stronger in the public category, especially when compared to many of the NorthEast/Mid-Atlantic cities that were mentioned by Michael G...

[Michael George]

Clint:

No one roots for private courses or their owners or members to have financial difficulties.  I said that if they become public as a result, it may be one positive to come out of it. 

There is no reason to be argumentative for the sake of argument on this one.

[David Stewart]

The Pinehurst area would have to be high on the list for favoring the "public" courses.

The Pinehurst Resort
Pine Needles/Mid-Pines
Tobacco Road
Southern Pines
Dormie Club (public for at least the foreseeable future)

There are other decent public courses as well, but not that many private courses that would be labeled as at least great.

[Andy Troeger]

Matthew,
My issue with your post is that you're making a value judgment about public/private in Indy, then stating that you're not really qualified to make that judgment, then rephrasing to what you really mean about the 3rd best private on down. The first part is basically meaningless at that point, but you've repeated it in multiple threads, hence the reply.

I would also guess that trend is not as uncommon as you'd think, especially in the midwest/west. With only a few exceptions, its only in the east and some areas of California/Arizona where the gap is that prevalent. 

[Sean_A]

Sean,

whilst in the Sates there might be no point in distinguishing between munis and other types of publics I beg to differ here in the UK.

As I am sure you are aware having lived in Britain for a while most brits would define public courses as those that are affordable for the average man in the street. Courses such as KB or CS whilst being open to all, are at a price which most average golfers will not pay. I very much doubt many would agree with you that they are public (atleast not in spirit and generally brits tend to view things on the spirit rather than technicalities of the offered product). It should also be noted that such courses do not see themselves in the Joe public golf scene.

Jon

Jon

If this is the case there really shouldn't be a distinguishing factor between publics and privates.  What is distinguishing is the price tag.  To a large extent that is what I was saying.  Tim believes there is a difference in publics in the US, but he really just talking about traditional pricing structure.  The main distinguishing element is access.  The pricing is really about meeting the market at all levels.  My final point was that in many places in the States one doesn't really need to join a club to enjoy solid golf at an affordable price.  That is less true in the UK if one is playing on a regular basis and is concerned about good value. 

Ciao   

[Jon Wiggett]

Sean,

you need to re read my post. If you cannot afford to pay the price then it is not accessable to you. Therefore, courses with GFs outside the reach of the average person are probably not really public here in GB.

Jon

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()