How do you make it last four hours....

[Tim_Weiman]

Evan,

I'm think there SHOULD be a law requiring golf to be played in three hours.  Maybe then everyone would cheat, ignore the law and actually play in four hours.  Still not good by UK standards, but it would be an improvement.

I'm quite fond of telling the story of visiting Saunton with Russell Talley from European Golf Design.  Russell had hurt his ribs playing "footsie" as he called it (I think that means soccer in American english), so I wound up playing by myself.

The pro advised us that there was a four ball going out in front of us playing for the "Winter Club Championship".

At Saunton the first hole is a straight mid length par 4.  I told Russell it might be best to let the guys playing for the club championship clear the green before I went off.

On the 15th tee I finally caught them and had to wait a couple minutes.  The next time I saw them was in the bar where they apologized for holding me up.  One fellow said he was embarrassed to have held up a guest visiting the club!

Honestly, I almost fell over.

We just don't have that kind of consideration here in the States.  Sadly, I think.

[Chris Kane]

I played in a two at Commonwealth yesterday and despite having to wait on every tee, we still finished in 3.5hrs.  This was despite making no effort to play quickly, and with no pressure from a course ranger.

This is contrast to a junior tournament I played on Monday, where I was in the clubhouse 6.25hrs after hitting off.  Elite junior golfers tend to be obnoxious p****s wherever they play.  When I asked a playing partner why he'd taken 7.5 minutes to line up a putt, he replied "well the pros do it, and it works for them so....".

Pathetic.  

[Tim_Weiman]

Chris,

I think we need to have John Daly blow away Tiger's records and win the next ten majors.

[Evan Fleisher]

JakaB and TimW,

I have not met Mr. Gallo, but would be happy to play with him anytime.

I was not trying to defend slow play...it is one of my biggest pet peeves of all on the golf course.  I think that one can both play quickly AND enjoy the scenery and architecture of merit...if that is your choice.  All I'm saying is that not every course is laid out such that quick play can be achieved.  I was just trying to say that it is not necessarily the pure time aspect, but that the pace is quick enough to keep things moving.

Last summer, I went out to World Woods Pine Barrens with my brother, brother-in-law, and childhood best friend...they all rode and I walked.  Keep pace with them was fairly easy because they pretty much hacked it up, but the distances between holes made it quite difficult to keep up my "normal" pace.  I know the round took us longer than 4 hours...but not much more.  Should that be considered "slow play", or just a "rub of the green" based on the course layout?

Having played over in Scotland myself, i can attest to the speed at which most (if not ALL) local players play over there...and going off as two-balls even adds to that speed versus the four-balls commonly accepted on most American courses.  I don't think it took more than 3.5 hours to play ANY of the golf we played over there, and I certainly "took in the sights" and even had time to play a few "fun shots" at places like the Road Hole bunker, etc.

Just trying to distinuish between a steafast rule, and the idea that we can speed up play wherever we play our game.

[Chris Kane]

Tim,

From my experiences of junior golfers, the amount of time they take to play is inversely related to their level of ability.  

For example, I play off 18 and take 3.5-4hrs on average.  The kids off low handicaps take 4.5-5hrs.  And thats as a single with no one on the course!  Getting stuck behind two elite juniors is painful.  They won't even rake the bunkers becuase that's "beneath them".

It makes you wonder why some clubs have a handicap limit for visitors.  Pehaps a solution would be a policy like this: "No player with a handicap below 6 may play except on non-comp days.  For persons under 21, this limit is 9".

I'm trying to construct a mathematical model to prove my point!  

[Matt_Ward]

For what it's worth -- too many people have "blue tee syndrome." They think they have the game to play with the "big boys." The result? An absolute death march.

Agree with GeoffreyC -- people need to play when ready. Too many distractions have infiltrarted American golf. People believe anything close to five plus hours is OK because they're more interested in making golf a "show" rather than a game that is played without undue delays.

When you have people go to Bethpage Black and say they can "handle" the tip tees I just about roll over and start laughing. About four sleeves later these "I am Tiger in my mind type golfers" finally come to their senses and play from tees they can handle.

[Gene Greco]

Bob,

     You sound like a man after my own heart. I've solved that "problem" by being last off at Pebble (at full fee) and last off at Cypress among the unescorted groups in the morning. Each allows me to loiter at the most spectacular areas of the golf courses. At Sand Hills I always play an early evening solo round so that I have ample opportunity to drink in the ambiance as well. I affect no one's pace of play and am able to attain that zen golf which places such as these so easily inspire.

[Paul Richards]

This weekend at Kapalua presented one of the biggest
problems in golf that we face ....

Sergio Garcia!

Sergio is a wonderful young player.  Exciting and fun to
watch.  He's one of my favorites.

However, watching him stand over a shot and waggle is
like torture!

Over one of the first shots I got to see of the tournament,
the talking head said that "he stands over the ball for 20-some
seconds" and they started a timer.  After Sergio's first few
waggles, I thought that he looked ready to go, and would
NEVER take 20-seconds.

Well, for the next 15 or 20 waggles, he looked just as ready
to hit, and by the time he actually hit the ball, the timer
had run 'til 30 SECONDS!!!

Any young kid watching this dashing young man and trying
to emulate him will learn all the wrong things about how to
play the game.

Grip it and rip it is right!

[redanman (Guest)]

4.5 hours and more seem like a death march to me under ANY circumstances.  Maybe walking that rare very very hilly course like Yale it is OK, but Americans play way too damned slow, period. If you have to smell that many roses, don't work so damned much.

We have Jack Nicklaus, the greatest player of all time to thank for slow play, freezing for minutes over putts, the shame is that Jack was a relatively fast player in the 60's, he walked so fast between shots, the people had to run to keep up.  Now everyone in competitions is SOOOOOOOOO freaking slow, it doesn't matter.  In Colorado they had to institute time clocks.  September 11, 1989 (Day before my daughter was born) I walked off in the middle of the 10th hole in the state Mid-Amateur qualifier at over 3 hours!!! and packed it in.  It was 42* and drizzling on top of it and my group was a hole behind, refused to speed up.  A threesome! The Colroado time clock? 4.5 hours for threesomes, and a lot of guys as of 3 years ago struggled to do it.

Humorously, Paul,  I keep waiting for milk to come out of Sergio's clubs. I can't even watch him anymore especially with that reverse cup/trap move down to boot! Ycccccch.

The comment about not blaming one for playing slowly after plunking down $400 to play PBGnotL or similar venues shows just how much that the game doesn't matter any more, it's the EXPERIENCE.

Bullshit.  Walk the beach down below if you want the experience.

[THuckaby2]

Now Bill, dear friend, I've walked the beach below Pebble countless times and if you call that the equal of the experience of playing the course, well....

There's a place for everything.  No one here is advocating slow play, that's for sure.  But the wisdom of guys like Bob, Rich, Gene is sure music to my ears.  I for one know damn well that even though we had a tee time at Shinnecock pending, I never wanted the round at NGLA to end... Each round I've played with Bob at MPCC or with Rich anywhere I'm sure not trying to set speed records.... We whipped around Lehigh and I felt the same way.... no regrets, mind you, but just sorry to leave such great places.  I believe this is what the point is here.

TH