North Shore CC (Long Island): a photo tour (all holes on display)

[Joe Bausch]

On a beautiful Sunday recently I had the fortune to drive up from Philly to play North Shore.  There are plenty of threads on the interesting architectural history of North Shore and are accessible via the search function.

In the last year or so Doak did work at North Shore, which he summarized as follows in an earlier thread

(http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,42325.910.html):

The major changes are as follows:

New 1st hole, 380 yards, from old 18th green up to old 2nd tee.  Improves visibility over present first hole.

New 2nd hole, 305 yards.  Sahara type, from between 2nd & 18th tees down the old 17th fairway, with green set to the left backing up close to the ravine on #16.

New 17th hole, 135 yards.  From old 17th tee just across the ravine, to the wildest green I've built in a while, based on the Short hole at National.  Added a fourth par-3 hole when previous course had only three.

New 18th hole, 615 yards.  From old 2nd green up and over the hill and down to old 1st tee.  Deep bunker front left of green and a nasty fall-off to the left.  Adds variety of a long par-5 hole when all the rest were 475-500 yards; also more dramatic view down toward the clubhouse than on the present 18th.

New 7th hole, 315 yards.  Tee moved up the hill to the right of the 6th green; approach opened up so that you can try to drive the green, but any pulled drive will result in big trouble.  Based loosely on the 6th at Pacific Dunes, but styled to look like Raynor.

We have also rebuilt the sixth green (more of a punchbowl) and will do major grading in the sixth fairway; and today we are starting to rebuild the 15th green, which was just too steep.

I just wish I had been there before the changes, but that's okay.  I think many of the following pics will nicely show the course now.

Here is the previous routing using a May, 2010 Google aerial:



Go here for a larger version of the 2010 routing:

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/northshore/2010_routing.jpg

Google Earth has not mapped out Long Island since the changes Doak made, so I've done my best to show the new routing on top of the 2010 Google aerial:



Go here for a larger version of the current routing:

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/northshore/2011_routing.jpg

But hey, enough of my yakkin'; whaddaya say? Let's boogie!

#1.  Named "New Leaf", an uphill par 4 (359 yards) with a very interesting green.



Some will choose to drive past this bunker, others to lay up short of it:



Looking back down the fw from the front left part of the green, that hump on the green can be nicely utilized (right, MW?!):



A look from over the green:



#2.  Named "Sahara", a short but very interesting downhill par 4 (311 yards).  You can bunt one down there avoiding that deep bunker to the left, or swing away, with the line being over the right edge of that bunker.

Tee box view, where the flag for the 2nd green is the one to the left (to the right is the flag for the new par 3 17th hole):



From the beginning of the fw:



There is another bunker short and left of the green.  This pic shows the green, the 17th green, and the 16th green in the background:



We had a wonderful pin this day:



To get to the 3rd tee requires crossing over the tee for the new 18th hole.

#3.  Named "Road", this is a wonderful road hole inspired par 4 (483 yards).  It heads to the west and in the late afternoon sun the lighting was not ideal for the first two pics:

Tee shot view, where that big bunker left is not reachable for mere mortals:



From 175 yards out:



From short of the green:



From the back of the green:



Pretty nice start, eh?  More tomorrow.

[michael damico]

Joe,

you nailed the routing on the G Earth map; looks spot on. Nice pics too

[Tom_Doak]

Joe:

Nice to see the golf course looking in excellent shape ... especially the third fairway, which was dirt for much of the spring into mid-summer.

The great green on the third is the original, which we didn't touch, other than to fix the little bunker at the left.  [I think it's been rebuilt several times.]  However, we did push the tee up just a bit and re-grade the fairway to turn the hole into a long par-4 from what had been a very short par-5.  All three of the par-5 holes on the original course [3, 4 and 16] were 490 or 500 yards; we added the new 18th to make a long one, and converted the third to get another long par-4, where the course was also a bit lacking. 

[JR Potts]

Tom:

How many trees did you take out?  Do you have any before and after pictures you can email me?

Thx

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

Another view of the 2nd green.  This is a really cool hole that quite a few old timers have had trouble getting used to--we get a good amount of North Shore member play when they have tournaments--I always tell them that it is very similar to the 2nd at NGLA and that they should not expect an automatic par simply because they can almost drive a hole,  From the 16th fairway, the hole really looks like it flows with the land.

[michael damico]

yessir, that third green is spectacular and the hole is awesome as a long par 4, rather than a par 5. On rainy days I would walk out to that green and chip all around. Sadly, the closest I've come to a Road Hole thus far is NGLA, Yale and NSCC.

I also firmly believe that hole 2 will become a favorite among the members. I mean, one heck of a starting 5 holes over there now at NS...

[Tom_Doak]

Note that Robert's picture [above] and description are actually of the new SECOND green, not the third.

It's a very small green with a sharp ridge through it, which makes it a tricky little hole if you just bail to the right off the tee.  I am not surprised to hear that it is taking some getting used to.

[Michael Whitaker]

Joe,

Thanks for starting this thread... it really helps!

As for #1... I thought the green was fantastic and, yes, I loved the ridge on the left. The green reminded me of one that Mike Strantz might do with the high sweep up to the left and the rollover to the back right corner. Lots of fun here. My tee shot was short of the fairway bunker on the right and I pushed my second (I'm a lefty). Thinking I had hit into the lefthand greenside bunker I uttered an appropriate expletive only to see my ball land on the upper portion of the ridge, check to the right, then curl around and down the green to finish about 18 feet below the hole! Naturally, I accepted my good fate with a smile and let everyone assume it was astute observational skills and talent that pulled off such a wonderful shot.  

#2 is a terrific addition to the course. Every one in our group played the hole in a different way (intentionally  or unintentionally   ). Joe took a shot at the green and cleared the bunker with ease. I, on the other hand, used my lack of distance to an advantage and chunked a hybrid out well short of the bunker. Another member of our group hit out to the right of the bunker effectively making the hole a 90 degree dogleg, and the 4th player was short of me but well to the right. Everyone was facing completely different distances and angles... it was fun to watch! I'd like to see the approach to the green mowed at green height so that you couldn't really tell where the green begins, which would let one putt from 30 yards or more. This is a very old school hole and looks as if it was just always there. Love it!

#3 is definitely a Road Hole. While the hole turns right to left from the tee instead of left to right like the original, the challenge of the second shot is spot on and quite daunting. My only nitpick on this hole is that the Road Bunker did not seem "gathering" enough, but that is being EXTREMELY nitpicky. The bunkers behind the green definitely put the fear of the "road" into your approach shot.

[michael damico]

not to mention that Mike Whitaker's take on the Road Bunker is taken because we specified a line of construction to preserve the exisiting conditions. Possibly a deeper cut into the line of play could fully respect the exact point of what you are saying as a 'gathering bunker'.

That picture you provided looks like a bunch of Photoshop trees thrown in front of the exisiting trees, offering a 'buffer' to the fourth back teeing ground. I don't recall an army row of aqua trees in that area as a bunch of pro gater's were sifted throughout the area

[Mark Hissey]

Joe:

Nice to see the golf course looking in excellent shape ... especially the third fairway, which was dirt for much of the spring into mid-summer.

The great green on the third is the original, which we didn't touch, other than to fix the little bunker at the left.  [I think it's been rebuilt several times.]  However, we did push the tee up just a bit and re-grade the fairway to turn the hole into a long par-4 from what had been a very short par-5.  All three of the par-5 holes on the original course [3, 4 and 16] were 490 or 500 yards; we added the new 18th to make a long one, and converted the third to get another long par-4, where the course was also a bit lacking. 

Tom, as you saw the last time, the greens have also come in incredibly well. That's a pretty nice surprise considering the fact that we were a bit nervous about how well they would play and tie in. 

[Tom_Doak]

Joe:

Nice to see the golf course looking in excellent shape ... especially the third fairway, which was dirt for much of the spring into mid-summer.

The great green on the third is the original, which we didn't touch, other than to fix the little bunker at the left.  [I think it's been rebuilt several times.]  However, we did push the tee up just a bit and re-grade the fairway to turn the hole into a long par-4 from what had been a very short par-5.  All three of the par-5 holes on the original course [3, 4 and 16] were 490 or 500 yards; we added the new 18th to make a long one, and converted the third to get another long par-4, where the course was also a bit lacking. 

Tom, as you saw the last time, the greens have also come in incredibly well. That's a pretty nice surprise considering the fact that we were a bit nervous about how well they would play and tie in. 

I can't wait to putt on the seventeenth green next year when it is up to full speed.  That is right up there with the most severe greens we've ever built -- Brian Schneider's work of course, although I had to tone it down SIGNIFICANTLY as it is. 

[Michael Whitaker]

not to mention that Mike Whitaker's take on the Road Bunker is taken because we specified a line of construction to preserve the exisiting conditions. Possibly a deeper cut into the line of play could fully respect the exact point of what you are saying as a 'gathering bunker'.

That picture you provided looks like a bunch of Photoshop trees thrown in front of the exisiting trees, offering a 'buffer' to the fourth back teeing ground. I don't recall an army row of aqua trees in that area as a bunch of pro gater's were sifted throughout the area

Michael - That photo of the 3rd green is from the NSCC's website. I didn't notice the trees before, but you are correct... they are definitely Photoshopped.

[Joe Bausch]

not to mention that Mike Whitaker's take on the Road Bunker is taken because we specified a line of construction to preserve the exisiting conditions. Possibly a deeper cut into the line of play could fully respect the exact point of what you are saying as a 'gathering bunker'.

That picture you provided looks like a bunch of Photoshop trees thrown in front of the exisiting trees, offering a 'buffer' to the fourth back teeing ground. I don't recall an army row of aqua trees in that area as a bunch of pro gater's were sifted throughout the area

Michael - That photo of the 3rd green is from the NSCC's website. I didn't notice the trees before, but you are correct... they are definitely Photoshopped.

Who knows, maybe NSCC will 'upgrade' some of their web page photos soon.   

[Joe Bausch]

Three more holes today.

After what is really a par 4.5 par 4 3rd hole, the par 5 4th hole is a nice respite, really a par 4.5 too.

#4.  Par 5 (482 yards).  You drive down to the bottom of a hill.



Then are left with this view, where you can bunt one up to the top of the hill, or try to reach the green in two, usually having a shot of around 200ish.



If you 'lay-up', this is the 3rd shot view:



View from left of the green:



#5.  The Biarritz par 3 (236 yards).  Only the back part is mowed at green length.











#6.  "Punchbowl":  an uphill and slight dogleg right par 4 (434 yards).

Tee shot view to a canted fairway that Tom re-worked I'm told.



From 200 yards out where many tee shots collect:



From 125 yards out:



Real fun pin location this day:



View of the green from the new tee on the upcoming par 4 7th hole:



To the left of the 6th green, in the old tee shot corridor for the 7th hole, is now a par 3 19th hole, with a nifty looking green:

[Tom_Doak]

Joe:

Some of the best work my associates Brian Schneider and Jonathan Reisetter did at North Shore were the little tweaks on holes 4 & 5.  

In addition to changing the greenside bunkering on #4, we removed some mounds at the back and right of the green [which protected the cart path, which had been routed over there!] and extended the green well over to the right, creating a scary new hole location.  It's a par 5 when the flag is over there!

On #5, the Biarritz swale was long gone by the time we got there, and they did a heck of a job putting it back and making it look like it had never left.  There was no indication that the ground in front of the swale had ever been part of the green ... the soils did not look like they were set up for putting ... so we did not consider converting it to putting surface.

And yes, we did change the cant of #6 fairway, by a lot actually ... I think the left side is about 5-6 feet higher than it was when we started our work.  There was so much tilt before that short drives only stayed in the fairway if it had been really wet, and if it was really dry, balls might roll all the way to the fence line.  I guess I should have mentioned that as an example of tilted fairways in that other thread! 

[Joe Bausch]

Thanks for the additional info about changes on holes 4 and 5, Tom.  I believe there is no room to add any yardage to No 4, but, if it was possible, would you have recommended it?  Is it possible No 4 is a really good par 5 now, with adding say 30 or 40 yards not making it any better?

[Michael Whitaker]

#4 is one of those old school holes that probably wouldn't be built by most modern architects. It presents a semi-blind tee shot followed by a blind second shot. My second shot finished on the extreme left side of the fairway about 50 yards short of the green... which presented to the eye a perfect bump and run opportunity. My caddie said I should lob it onto the green, but it just LOOKED like I should chase it on. His main concern was whether or not the ball would release and climb up the little ridge in front. Well, I took an eight-iron and popped the sweetest little scooter onto the green... it would have made Andrew Mitchell so proud of me!  I can see where the green could be very difficult to two-putt if one had to negotiate a good portion of it. If the hole were placed in the expansion on the right it would be fun to watch golfers trying take on the fronting bunkers to get at that pin. Good luck!

#5 was a really tough par three for me because I needed one of my longest clubs to try and clear the swale and reach the green. The other three guys in my group could reach with an iron or hybrid, but it was a serious challenge for all. I was hoping to chase a ball through the swale, just to see if I could do it, but no such luck! I love holes like this that present a well defined challenge that can be reasonably met (at one time or another) by every level golfer. Good golf holes are like good advertising... keep it simple, stupid!

#6 is one of those holes that presents a very different challenge for lefties vs righties. To a left-hander, when you set up for your tee shot your eyes focus on the low area of the fairway to the left. It "feels" like you would have to pull hook a shot up the hill to keep it on the fairway. As I result I hit naturally a big push slice over the fence that borders the left side of the fairway. C'est la vie. The green on this hole is fantastic... it offers a good opening on the right that allows lesser golfers such as myself to run a ball up and let it curve around to the center... which I was able to accomplish with my second ball. The other guys, who all hit fantastic tee shots, proceeded to challenge the fronting bunker... and, all three came up short in the bunker. C'est la vie, again! Trying to clear that huge bunker with a very uphill shot fooled everybody, which I guess was the point!

[Mark Hissey]

We really have to test that flat area on the approach to the fourth green. I'm almost certain it is the remnants of an old Emmett green from pre-1916.

[Tom_Doak]

Thanks for the additional info about changes on holes 4 and 5, Tom.  I believe there is no room to add any yardage to No 4, but, if it was possible, would you have recommended it?  Is it possible No 4 is a really good par 5 now, with adding say 30 or 40 yards not making it any better?

Joe:

That was a tough hole to figure out.  I had an inkling that the original hole might have been some kind of Lido hole, because there's a ridge about 200 yards from the tee on the right that would have made a good optional landing area; but there was just no way to move the tee back to make use of that.  [The current tee backs right up into #8 fairway; we could have gained a few yards by moving it way right toward #7, but that would have made a much longer green-to-tee walk, and the hole would still have been short.]  So, in the end, we decided to make our improvements at the green end.

[Mike_Trenham]

Michael W

I am pretty sure it was a five wood I hit into #5 with a hard draw.

On Five I understand the compromise of not maintaining the front of the bairritz as a green but what if any thing different was done to make sure the run-up play is possible?  Is front built more like a green pad than a fairway?

The two shots on number 6 were pretty demanding mentally for me especially the tee shot it looks like there is no room for error but there may be ample space but visually it looked like dead straight ball was the best option.

[Joe Bausch]

Three more holes today (yesterday was a wonderful day of golf at Yale; don't miss it if you get the opp!).

We started on the 10th hole so these were our last three holes and the sun setting made pics challenging at times...

#7.  "Bandon":  a much different tee shot now than before the renovation (I'm sure Tom will add some info), playing 325 yards.

A ravine to carry on the drive, only in play for the dub:



From 150 yards out:



Looking back from the fw to show, from left to right, the new teeing areas, #6 green, and the old fw corridor which came up the hill on the right.



Left is sort of dead here:



From over the green:



#8.  "Pond":  a par 4 (385 yards).

One of the flatter holes at NS, but it does run a bit downhill, more so near the pond left which is reachable with a good drive.



Pic taken earlier in the round while standing behind the 4th tee box:



A good drive leaves an approach shot view like this:



From just right of the green which slopes a good amount from right to left:



#9.  "Redan":  an excellent rendition, IMO (178 yards).

Tee shot view:



From just short of the green:



From just over the green:



Back nine begins tomorrow.  But let me re-post from the historical thread a placemat from NS showing the 2010 routing quite nicely:

[scott_wood]

Question for Tom......were any changes to #9, the Redan made?
Or is what is presently there, "there".

[Tom_Doak]

Question for Tom......were any changes to #9, the Redan made?
Or is what is presently there, "there".

In the interest of keeping nine holes in play for the members at all times, we did not make any changes to #9 last year.  [Or to #10 and #11.]

We do have some things we'd like to do on the hole, which Mr. Zucker has talked about pursuing next year.  Principally, at #9, my goal would be to lower the big shoulders on the green -- I'm convinced that the greenside bunkers were rebuilt 30-40 years ago, and in the process both the approach and the recovery shots got much harder.

[Mark McKeever]

Great tour so far!  I thought it was neat how the redan and eden are back to back holes that are literally next to/within the clubhouse buildings.

They also have a wild putting green!

Mark

[Joe Bausch]

#10.  "Eden" par 3 (154 yards).



From short and left of the green:



From just over the green:



#11.  "Woods", a dogleg right par 4 (391 yards) with a very uphill approach shot.  I'm curious to know if anything is planned for this hole.

Tee shot view, where many will just hit something 200 out near the elbow, then have a long uphill shot in; I think it might be worth the trouble to hit 3-wood/driver and cut something around the corner.



From the beginning of the fw:



Approach shot view:



View from behind the green:



#12.  "Hilltop":  a short, uphill par 4 (349 yards).

Tee shot view:



Approach shot view:



From just over the green: