[Terry Lavin]

Clearly, it's America.  We have big courses, with a lot of forced carries, carts and concrete cart paths, insulated beer bags, beer cart girls, over-the-top service in the halfway house, clubhouse and parking lot, big screen tv's in the card rooms and pro shops, caddies who use range finders.  In short, everything a purist would love!   

[JMEvensky]

It is also the only course where I ever played a team comp where each team member had 1 club each and had to play in strict rotation.

Apologies for the threadjack,but if I'm understanding correctly,this kind of member tournament sounds like a blast.

[Mark Pearce]

Terry,

You forgot the waterfalls and fountains.  For me that what finally settles it.

[Sev K-H Keil]

There's an easy test: The quality of golfing culture is directly proportional with the availability of Kuemmel at a club.

To Deal's credit, they even serve Kuemmel at the hut...

[JC Jones]

Clearly, it's America.  We have big courses, with a lot of forced carries, carts and concrete cart paths, insulated beer bags, beer cart girls, over-the-top service in the halfway house, clubhouse and parking lot, big screen tv's in the card rooms and pro shops, caddies who use range finders.  In short, everything a purist would love!   

I love the self-loathing.

The answer to this question is clearly the USA.  It's just fun to let the queen's subjects have their little "we are purists" fun.

[Sean_A]

Terry

I do like the card room atmosphere of American clubs and of course beer cart girls are a major plus - well, alcohol on the course is a major plus!  Playing cards after golf and drinking beer on the course seem to be a big no no over the pond.  

Like the Canary, I think comps are a bit over-rated, but still important.  Clubs I belonged to seem to be swamped with the damn things - to the point where social golf definitely takes a back seat on the weekends and it can sometimes be hard to get on the course without a week's planning.  I have played in more comps these past three years than all of the rest of my golfing life.  

If one belongs to a big gun club there is also the issue of the huge amount of comps outside of club membership - sometimes this is a real pain in the ass.  I can only imagine what its like to belong to a club on the tourista trail - a constant barrage of visitors, but this will never change as it is an important way to keep subs down.    

The dinners over here can get a bit much as well, not that I would change that, but it does kerb (love that crazy spelling) my playing in too many of these things.  All that aside, I still like the club culture over here in the main because its far more affordable and so I meet all sorts of odd people.  

Golf is golf folks.  Its good and bad everywhere.  Take what you like and throw the rest back.

Ciao

[Michael Goldstein]

Sev, it remains to this day a great shame that we missed you at PB because JP purchased the entire NZ stock of Kummel (2 bottles) to share with guests like yourself.

[Michael George]

Terry:

I consider myself a purist.  However, I have no problem with the beer cart girls.  A fine addition to purist golf.

[Andy Stamm]

Andy - how many Scottish clubs are two ball? Muirfield, Prestwick, Elie(?) anymore? England has Rye, Deal, Sandwich, RAF, B&B, Brancaster, Aldeburgh, Piltdown and Pulborough. The big 36 hole clubs like Sunningdale, Walton Heath and The Berkshire always have a two ball course.

That's what I figured, but I'm just not familiar enough with the breadth of courses in both countries to have been able to say for sure. From my experience, Scotland is plenty fast, but 1 four ball of tourists or a medal competition, etc. can really slow down the whole course.

A two ball course (or better yet a 36 hole club with both) will do more to ensure fast play. And England having more than anywhere else is definitely high marks in my book. Although probably not high enough to reach the rarified air of Scotland's golfing culture overall.

[Martin Toal]

It is also the only course where I ever played a team comp where each team member had 1 club each and had to play in strict rotation.

Apologies for the threadjack,but if I'm understanding correctly,this kind of member tournament sounds like a blast.

Team of 5, one with a driver, one with a 4 iron, one with a 7 iron, one with a sand wedge, one with a putter, and the team has to play in that order, uninterrupted by completing a hole. So if the sand iron holes out on one hole, the putter tees off on the next. As well as trying to hit good shots, there is an extra strategic element of avoiding teeing off on a par 5 with a putter when the driver is next up.

I think there was a variation one Christmas where an extra 2 stableford points were scored if everyone in the team drank a measure of brandy. The early positive effect on scores weakened as the round proceeded.

The flag competition is a nice variation on a medal. In this one the player plays out their stroke allowance (par plus handicap), so if you complete 18 with some shots left over, you played down the 1st. Then the competition is won not by the guy with the most shots left over, but the guy who can get his ball furthest round the course.

I also like bogey competitions (aka versus par), in which you play matchplay versus the course. Your score versus par plus any shots for that hole. You better it, you win the hole, etc.

[Gary Slatter]

1. Scotland: still plenty to play wo hassle, good roads
2.  England: good selection, food has improved
3.  Ireland:  bad roads, good selection of courses.  group from Cayman recently played 11 courses and got cart for golfer who needed it

Is two ball worth crossing the sea for, not.  For speed, run on the beaches, for fun, enjoy golf!

[Mark Pearce]

The Golf House Club, Elie is not a two ball club, though they do play a good amount of foursomes and have a large number of members who are also members of one or more of the R&A, HCEG and Prestwick.

Huntercombe is another two ball club in England.

[JMEvensky]

Team of 5, one with a driver, one with a 4 iron, one with a 7 iron, one with a sand wedge, one with a putter, and the team has to play in that order, uninterrupted by completing a hole. So if the sand iron holes out on one hole, the putter tees off on the next. As well as trying to hit good shots, there is an extra strategic element of avoiding teeing off on a par 5 with a putter when the driver is next up.

 

This is what I imagined--after I realized that 14 man teams might be a little unwieldy.

I've already e-mailed the idea to the powers that be at my club.I didn't mention the brandy part,but I did say that the idea came from someone in Ireland,so adding the alcohol should be understandable .

[Mark Chaplin]

Goldie - despite yourself, JP, Leo and the PB boys being premiere league New Zealand is relegated due to the lack of Kümmel!

JME I should hope not after a €150 round!

Different clubs suit different people and both the motherland and Scotland have something for everyone. Whilst I enjoy a medal once a year I never remember the score even if I did well. I do however remember the epic foursomes battles 2 down with 3 to play and finish 7, 6, 7 to win on the last or 2 up with 3 to play and losing despite finishing 5, 4, 5.

Brian something we stole of the Scots is the match dinner. Meet at 7pm in black tie, partner up with strangers, issue a challenge or two before settling into a nice dinner. At the conclusion of dinner the recorder commits the challenges to paper and the table wages small bets on the outcome of each match. I am sure Mr Muldoon can expand on how quickly you can meet and befriend a number of members.

[Niall C]

England and scotland for sure...they still have organised monthly medals, monthly stablefords etc., they are preopared to put their tee in the ground and actually count their scores...still play foursomes and actually know what that means....
The handicap system is based on  REAL golf and not the casual round with your buddies
they dont refer to golf courses as "tracks"...on golf shows...and they dont use that horriblt t19th phrase, they actuually use the word tied!!!!

They walk, trudge through crappy conditions and cant wait to stay up late to watch the Masters.....

After moving from NI to England, I was shocked at how few competitions there were at English clubs (and I have been a member of 4 different ones). At my old club in NI (Dungannon, original home of the Champion Golfer of the Year), we had comps every weekend, sometimes both days, as well as midweeks stuff. Some of the comps were medals, some stablefords, but we also had bogey competitions and flag competitions (you play out your handicap and see how far past the 18th you get). It is also the only course where I ever played a team comp where each team member had 1 club each and had to play in strict rotation.

Martin

If I recall we have both been members at Silloth and from my time there, they had comps all the way throguh the winter although during the winter they didn't count for handicap. That didn't stop the tee being busy on a saturday and sunday. Like Mark, I'm not entirely certain the amount of comps is the best judge of a golfing culture in any case. Personally I think it is more to do with playing irrespective of the weather, the condition of the course, enjoying the company and being willing to extend the company to the lone golfer. Oh....and a 3 hour lunch whether you're wearing a blazer, shirt and tie or the gear you wore on the course also counts in the mix as well.

From my perspective I would think that generally the culture is pretty similar throughout the UK and Ireland.

Niall

[Kalen Braley]

I'd agree with the sentiments that Terry speaks of.

Whats so bad with being pampered on the golf course?  Gozzer Ranch sure knows how to do it right!! 

P.S. And a hot beverage girl whose wearing the right perfume and is a little flirty will always add to the experience.

[Carl Rogers]

The USA is too big a country to generalize ... many sub-cults of golf exist like:
- USGA Golf
- Bandon Golf
- Long Island Golf
- Donald Trump Golf
- Residential Development Golf (sub sub-cult being Florida Golf)
- California Golf
- Burned Out Muni Golf
- Mom & Pop Golf
- Over Priced Golf (sub sub-cult being Resort Golf)
- Augusta National Golf
- the Golf that guys like me get to play
- 6 hour golf
only to mention a few

[Duncan Cheslett]

The dinners over here can get a bit much as well, not that I would change that, but it does kerb (love that crazy spelling) my playing in too many of these things.

How long have you been over here, Sean?

There are two spellings and two meanings of the word in question.

Kerb (noun) - raised stone separating the road from the footpath.

Curb (verb) - To curtail.

Chow.

 

[Sean_A]

The dinners over here can get a bit much as well, not that I would change that, but it does kerb (love that crazy spelling) my playing in too many of these things.

How long have you been over here, Sean?

There are two spellings and two meanings of the word in question.

Kerb (noun) - raised stone separating the road from the footpath.

Curb (verb) - To curtail.

Chow.

 

Duncan

Its difficult to express humour online.  Evidently I failed again.

Ciao

[Dan Herrmann]

I'm kind of partial to Canada.  Lots of great golf culture in The Great White North.

[Sean_A]

I'm kind of partial to Canada.  Lots of great golf culture in The Great White North.

Dan

Come on now, I have been operating on the three rule for Canada: hockey, lager and Neil.  You can't screw up an entire belief system by adding a 4th for Canada - and golf of all things!

Ciao

[Bill_McBride]

The dinners over here can get a bit much as well, not that I would change that, but it does kerb (love that crazy spelling) my playing in too many of these things.

How long have you been over here, Sean?

There are two spellings and two meanings of the word in question.

Kerb (noun) - raised stone separating the road from the footpath.

Curb (verb) - To curtail.

Chow.

 

Duncan

Its difficult to express humour online.  Evidently I failed again.

Ciao

Kerb yer enthusiasm!

[Michael Goldstein]

Does the variation mentioned by Carl not present a good argument for the USA? It has the whole spectrum of golf from cheap muni's to small private memberships. 

Personally I'm going for Scotland.
1. Great golf courses from the heralded to the unknown
2. 99% are accessible for everyone
3. Strong cultures at many clubs like Chappas mentions
4. No nonsense golf. Some two ball for variation.
5. Natural
6. Variation between links courses and inland courses like gleneagles, boat of garton etc
7. Good clubhouse atmosphere

[Sven Nilsen]

If I may, please accept the following as the American equivalents to what sounds like a wonderful way to spend a day:

Meet in bar for coffee and brandy

Rush to the first tee after an hour drive to get to the only course with an available tee time.

Play 18 holes in a brisk manner be it two ball, foursomes or even fourball.

Suffer through 18 holes of waiting for the group in front of you to clear.

Shower and don jacket and tie or cravat if you are the type.

Wash hands and face in clubhouse bathroom so wife won't smell the beer and cigar (this often tried method amazingly never actually works).

Attend the dining room for a traditional three course luncheon, four if you have space for cheese. Choose a very good red(s) from the wine list if you were victorious or hope your opponent likes cheap claret if you lost as loser pays!

Choke down a serviceable premade sandwich (normally of the ham and cheese variety), with choice of mustard or mayonnaise in packets.

Retire to the bar for coffee and kümmel. Join with others and arrange an afternoon foursomes game to walk off the booze.

Retire to the pro shop to book your tee time for the next Saturday, as you can't wait to do it again, prior to lugging your gear back to the car for the now 2 hour traffic-ridden drive home with three comrades who will be expelling the gases produced by the beer and serviceable sandwiches, preferably with windows down.

What's not to love?

[Mark Chaplin]

Sven I'm sold on this idea.....not!

Goldy the small Scottish towns and villages have a wonderful attachment to their courses that I guess is only matched in parts of Ireland. However Scotland IMHO fails with it's inland courses in depth and quality, of course Gleneagles, BoG and Blairgowrie are great but the depth is lacking.

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