Golf World Magazine top 100 Continental Europe (behold the classics)

[Sean_A]

Ulrich (and Sean), check the definition of Doak 6s.  Very, very few golfers get to play these day in, day out, nor are they the bread and butter courses for any but a very privileged few.  There's enough Doak rating inflation goes on amongst our overseas cousins without two sane judges like you two engaging in it.

Canary

My point was 5-6 is bread and butter of top 100 lists unless its a world list. 

BTW  - I think you and Bill overstate your case on the Bracken by quite a margin.  The back nine has some good stuff.  If you think this course is just utterly horrid you haven't played enough courses - its quite an average course - I have played worse that wasn't utterly horrid.  Does that mean I want to play the course again - not a chance.  In fact, I pulled the American Card on the last trip to avoid it and play the Hotchkin twice on the deal. 

Ciao

[Ulrich Mayring]

Nothing left of the original at Frankfurt, all greens and bunkers were renovated/changed a few years ago and bear no resemblance anymore to the original Colt greens.

I might add that the fairways and tees aren't very good either

Frankfurt should be a Colt gem, but was turned into a championship course, where many of Germany's most promising young players are educated. It is still the best course in Frankfurt, though

Ulrich

[Joel_Stewart]

Budersand as a new courses comes in at 25th?

[Mike_Clayton]

Ulrich,

I heard they changed Frankfurt - and i have see a couple of photos.
It was always a good course and given it was a Colt course no reason to alter it too much - and certainly not change it to something that did not look like a Colt course.
How is it now?

[Paul_Turner]

Mike

I think Frankfurt was wrecked over a number of years.  Some changes through the war.  And then a recent awful redo by a local architect.

Just a bit of simple research (a few photos!) and it could have been so much better.

[Mike_Clayton]

Paul,

Would Colt be more surprised by Wentworth or Frankfurt?

[Anders Rytter]

Budersand as a new courses comes in at 25th?

Hi Joel,
Budersand is build on a very nice property it's the first course by Rolf-Stephan Hansen and i liked it a lot. Very bold with a semi blind par three etc for your first course. These pictures were taken a few week after the course opened so it's not really grown in, keep that in mind. (best seen on last picture)

[Jon Wiggett]

Cristian:

Thanks for paring down the ranking to the Classic courses of the continent.  I'll use that as a reference if our European projects get going and I can justify the time for a more extensive golf trip there.

What are the two or three best old courses [in your estimation] that did not make the top 100 list?

In France I quite liked Cannes Mandelieu (Colt).

I would second this. I spent a weekend playing the course (4 rounds) and really liked it. Colt's design is still very obvious. Good bit of quirk on the course, back to back par threes twice and a ferry boat ride to boot. On the down side in poor condition though this almost added to the charm

If you are in the area well worth a look.

Jon

[Ulrich Mayring]

Mike (Clayton),

here are some recent pics I took of Frankfurter:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,41742.msg886969.html

It plays long, so if that makes it a good championship course, then there's no argument from me. I just had an average amount of fun playing it.

Ulrich

[Anders Rytter]

A Ryter-Does Budersand have a tight, walkable routing?  (I see a walking bag in the photos)  Is any housing in the plans around the course?  How far away is the club from Hamburg and Berlin?

Tom-You were quite candid although you were a bit evasive regarding the equipment question but when Huggan circled around a 2nd time you offered your opinion that you would not change the golf ball but rather would return to wooden clubs.

I really appreciated your explanation regarding how the lack of excellent courses in the 1950s-1970s was in large part due to the depression years of 1930-1947 resulting in the young associates who helped create the masterpieces of the 1920s and 1930s getting out of the business in order to pay their bills which left a vacum of golf course architects when the boom returned in the 1950s and that allowed guys like RTJ Sr to dominate the design business.

Makes me wonder if the US experiences another 15-20 year slow growth golf era, will the current talented you associates today be around to build designs in the 2030s or will they move on to other careers?

You also praised Ben Crenshaw for differentiating himself from other golf pros by associating himself with a true professional architect like Bill Coore and also respecting that partnership by putting Coore's name first on the masthead.


Given that Golf World targets an European readership, is there a reason you did not discuss your potential Bordeaux and Spain projects much less the Renaissance Club?

I would send you the article but I intentionally left the magazine with your interview folded outward in the locker room of one of the clubs you consult for in Northern California this weekend (hopefully you will encourage them to put less water on the fairways, drives were stopping within a foot of their landing despite no recent rain).

Funny how when they listed your top courses, Pacific Dunes was not mentioned!

Bill,
I walked it, it's my bag on the photos. As far as i recall its a very easy walk. Regarding housing, the Hotel and clubhouse is just next to the course besides that i think you'll only see housing on one or two holes, houses build before the coures. (played the course a few years back, things might have changed)

Budersand is on the German Island Sylt off the north-western coast, it's closest to Hamburg but not exactly close. 300-400km i guess and the ferry or train to get to the island.