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Cristian

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shanqin Bay Review
« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2011, 08:30:19 AM »
mmmm a course name like that seems asking for trouble....

Soon to open in the same neighbourhood: Hoo Qin Valley GC
and Sli Sin fields GC  ;)

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Shanqin Bay Review
« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2011, 09:05:41 AM »
I think there will be opportunities to showcase traditional golf, but at this point it has to be camouflaged in a spectacular setting.



How is that different from golf in America??

All the minimalist courses that have been highly praised are the ones that are built in spectacular settings.  Not many minimalist courses have been built on dull sites, for fear they will be dismissed as bland, or that people will wish there were more water hazards.

James Duncan

Re: Shanqin Bay Review
« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2011, 12:59:57 PM »
Disregarding real estate, the primary difference between when golf was rolled out internationally a hundred years ago, and the situation in China today, I think is the direct link the early developed courses had to British courses, and British tastes. Whether it's a Garden City, a Copenhagen GC, a Morfontaine or a Kingston Heath, or any of the other courses that are revered as understated classics today (dramatic bunkering at the latter notwithstanding), these are all influenced by the quirky, understated tastes of Edwardian Britain. The eccentric who played golf at his uncle's summerhouse in Elie or St Andrews, and who now wants a golf course to enjoy with his friends (a fairly typical client a century ago), is not your typical client in China today.

The prevailing aesthetic in China today is big, bold and colorful. This is expressed in golf courses as well. Something striking and bold is easy to experience, it takes good pictures, it sells real estate, and I think it's currently perceived in China as superior simply as a matter of taste. Our client at Shanqin Bay didn't want something unnecessarily grand, but this was likely a circumstance of personal preference merging happily with ours, not a broader indication of golf development trends in China. 

If there's any kind of silver lining in the currently depressed state of the golf business in the US, it might be that designers and operators will be forced to think more carefully about rediscovering golf values for their customers, which may lead to more bland-looking courses that are more fun to play because they have interesting contours that provide strategic propositions, at a lower price point than courses comprised of acres of sand and water hazards. We'll see..

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Shanqin Bay Review
« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2011, 04:30:39 PM »

Tom, how far away is your current project from SB?  What is your expected completion time line?


Bill:

We have two projects for the same client.  One is right in the city of Haikou; that's 15-20 minutes from the airport or the train to Shanquin Bay.  The other is at the northeastern tip of the island -- right now it's an exhausting drive that makes the trip Michael described seem very tame, but in two years, when it's ready to open, a new road should cut the trip to about 30 minutes from the airport.

Time lines in China are all just guesses.  They are just starting to do the earthwork for the first course ... we should start shaping in December.  If all goes well, that course should be planted late next summer and open early in 2013.  The second project, Mulan Bay, may start as soon as February or March, which would put it online in late 2013 or early 2014.  It's a huge job, but it might be the most dramatic site of anything I've done.

Anthony Gray

Re: Shanqin Bay Review
« Reply #29 on: October 16, 2011, 11:01:02 AM »
Peter:

In the last interview I did, for GOLF Magazine, I stated that I didn't think anyone from the West would ever really understand what is really happening in China and what they are thinking.  I'll stick with that.

But, it is a nice idea to try and show them what GOLF is really all about.  And they are so resistant!  There are always two guys in the room telling you that golfers in China will not accept this or that, even though they have never had the chance to see anything like what we are talking about.

I am in the very small minority of thinking that cool match play golf courses will be a hit in China.  Why?  Because THEY LOVE TO GAMBLE.  So, if they're out there for the game, and not for the status or the real estate value, they will love a course that's exciting and unpredictable.  Of course, I could be wrong ... but I'm not going to give up before I ever see if I'm right.


  BECAUSE they love to gamble. He gets it.


Anthony Gray

Re: Shanqin Bay Review
« Reply #30 on: October 16, 2011, 11:12:24 AM »


  How close is this to the other CC project and the new Doak course? Will it be reasonable to play them all on the same trip?

  Anthony


Scott Weersing

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shanqin Bay Review
« Reply #31 on: October 17, 2011, 07:18:43 AM »

The holes look good now with grass.

I remember seeing D. Zinkland's photos of the course as it was being built.

It is fun to compare the before and after.

http://www.out-and-back.net/?p=1840


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