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Jason Topp

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Denver CC Work
« on: October 11, 2011, 09:49:59 PM »
Played there today. A ton of work is being done to the course and to my eye it looks terrific. Anyone know who is doing the work?

D_Malley

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Re: Denver CC Work
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2011, 09:54:11 PM »
yes, Jim Wagner

michael damico

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Re: Denver CC Work
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2011, 07:56:36 AM »
that's nice to see; oldest club West of the Mississippi. Worked there a Fall season when I first moved to Denver.
"without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible"
                                                                -fz

Pete Blaisdell

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Re: Denver CC Work
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2011, 08:20:28 AM »
Mike
  Not that it really matters but the oldest club west of the Mississippi IN CONTINUOUS OPERATION is Old Del Monte (1897). Denver CC was established in 1887 but moved to it' present location in 1905. Just a historical nit pick point but it's all in how you look at it, I guess. Denver CC is a great club, I'm sure Will Nicholson still rules the roost there.
' Golf courses are like wives and the prom queen doesn't always make for the best wife "

michael damico

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Denver CC Work
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2011, 08:36:32 AM »
Pete,

did not know that, thanks for the correction. By the way, I thoroughly enjoy your quote of the prom queen
"without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible"
                                                                -fz

Joel_Stewart

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Re: Denver CC Work
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2011, 09:23:52 AM »
yes, Jim Wagner

Is this with Gil Hanse?

D_Malley

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Re: Denver CC Work
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2011, 10:13:42 AM »
yes, Jim is design partner with Gil

Ben Sims

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Denver CC Work
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2011, 10:22:50 AM »
By their own account, Mare Island Golf Club in Vallejo, CA is the oldest club west of the Mississippi (1892). 

As for Denver CC, I am interested to see how Jim handles some of the more confined areas and the creek.  Anyone know what changes are in store? 

--Great area of town by the way. 

Doug Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Denver CC Work
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2011, 10:38:51 AM »
Yes it is Gil Hanse. The work involves three parts: removing some bunkers and adding new ones, redoing existing bunkers,  and some tree removal.  About 6 holes are done or in process so far (work started after Labor Day) and early reviews are positive. One exciting aspect of Gil's work is he's reviewed the plans that William Flynn did for the club back in the 1920s when Flynn was asked to prepare and propose a course redesign for the club. The DCC board rejected Flynn's plans, reportedly on the grounds that the Flynn course would be too difficult. I have the Flynn plans and the DCC board was probably correct in its assessment--but what a course it would have been, with Pine Valley-like waste areas and challenging bunkering. Gil Hanse has incorporated some of the Flynn concepts in his bunker work, including locating some of the bunkering on the par 5 8th hole consistent with Flynn's plans. Hanse also is using a scale of bunkering that is striking, with some bunkers stretching between the fairways of two adjoining holes or, in the case of the adjacent 10th and 16th greens, connecting the greenside bunkers with one large bunker. Although there was nothing significantly wrong with the previous bunkering other than the inconsistent quality of the sand (which some of us on this site may say is good!), Hanse's work will improve the course, requiring the golfer to think more off the tee. And tree removal is almost always a good thing IMO (don't forward this post to the DCC tree committee please...).  

Pete, actually, Will Nicholson has had more influence at Augusta National than at Denver CC.

Ben, I'm not sure what confined areas/holes you're referring to. Happy to add color if you have questions.
Twitter: @Deneuchre

Ben Sims

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Denver CC Work
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2011, 11:32:49 AM »
...with some bunkers stretching between the fairways of two adjoining holes or, in the case of the adjacent 10th and 16th greens, connecting the greenside bunkers with one large bunker.

Ben, I'm not sure what confined areas/holes you're referring to. Happy to add color if you have questions.

Doug,

You hit on it above.  I was curious how the 8-10 stretch would be modified--if any.  Some tree removal and tying in of fairway/bunker area would be cool.  Same in regards to the 10 green, 16 green, 17 tee area.

Any plans to achange the par 5 13th?

Doug Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Denver CC Work
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2011, 12:14:53 PM »
Ben,

On the par 5 13th Gil added a large fairway bunker in the higher right side of the fairway about 100 yards from the green. As with other bunkers he's added, this makes the shot more interesting/requires some thought and execution. My sense is the bunker will be more in play for the better/longer players though--I'm rarely inside 150 yards in two on that hole.
Twitter: @Deneuchre

Niall Hay

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Denver CC Work
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2012, 04:45:40 PM »
Is the work complete? How does this course compare to Cherry Hills and/or Castle Pines?

Jeff Shelman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Denver CC Work
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2012, 06:18:07 PM »
Interesting. There appear to be several clubs that claim to be the oldest west of the Mississippi.

Tacoma Country and Golf Club calls itself the oldest private club west of the said big river.

I have no dog in the fight or any knowledge. Just thought it was interesting.

Matthew Petersen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Denver CC Work
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2012, 06:31:04 PM »
Is the work complete? How does this course compare to Cherry Hills and/or Castle Pines?

It's a nice club and I always enjoyed the course for what it is (haven't been there for well over a decade now), but I wouldn't say it compares at all with CP or CH.

Brad Isaacs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Denver CC Work
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2012, 06:42:59 PM »
Redlands CC in Redlands, CA was established 1896. Redlands was where the street cars ended in So Cal. Palm Springs before there was Palm Springs. It is on the original piece of property. Short, small greens and tight. Fun golf though.

Tiger_Bernhardt

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Re: Denver CC Work
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2012, 07:32:33 PM »
Would not bringing Flynn concepts into a course that is not Flynn create an unbalanced course and impact the flow and personality of the course.

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Denver CC Work
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2012, 12:17:09 AM »
Would not bringing Flynn concepts into a course that is not Flynn create an unbalanced course and impact the flow and personality of the course.

John:

Doug could answer better than me but my understanding is that the course is quite a hybrid already with many different architects involved over the years.  The changes in progress when I was out there last fall looked like improvements to my eye.

Matthew Petersen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Denver CC Work
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2012, 04:56:26 PM »
Would not bringing Flynn concepts into a course that is not Flynn create an unbalanced course and impact the flow and personality of the course.

Yeah, there's really no flow or personality to the course, respective to something injected by any particular designer. That course has had more hands on it over the years than about any other I know of.

Doug Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Denver CC Work
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2012, 04:15:23 PM »
Would not bringing Flynn concepts into a course that is not Flynn create an unbalanced course and impact the flow and personality of the course.

Yeah, there's really no flow or personality to the course, respective to something injected by any particular designer. That course has had more hands on it over the years than about any other I know of.

Matthew, that's interesting because I feel exactly the opposite. For all the architects who have worked on the course* over 100+ years, including substantial rerouting and the addition of new holes due to road expansion in the adjacent streets, it flows very well and has retained its personality as a classical urban parkland golf course that is subtly challenging. Unlike some other older courses, the stewards of Denver CC's golf course have paid a lot of attention to this. Most recently Gil Hanse has been attentive to this as well.  There are only two parts to the course that I view as inconsistent with the overall look and feel of the course: the 4th green, which was done by a member in the 1930s and has tiers and bowls unlike the other greens (and is appreciated for its uniqueness) and the par 4 14th hole, which plays around a lake and feels like a hole that was moved from someplace like Florida.  

* DCC architects:

James Foulis (1903)
Donald Ross (1914-1922)
William Flynn (1923-1924)
Harry Collis (1925)
William Diddell (1957-1959)
J. Press Maxwell (1963-1965)
Ed Seay (1975-1978)
Bill Coore (1985-2010)
Gil Hanse (2011-Present)

Tiger, I'd agree with you except Flynn was a classical architect and his style fits well with the existing look of the course. In addition, the work done by Hanse was essentially a bunker project that moved some bunkers and reshaped bunkers. Gil took Flynn's course plans into account in doing the work, he didn't attempt to "Flynn-ize" the course.

The work is about done now--the full course opened last weekend. The finished product looks very good to me. The most signficant effect of the work is to increase interest and strategy for some shots that previously were less so, particularly for better players IMO.

Here is a link to a discussion about the course from 2005. When time allows (don't hold your breath though), I will try to get and post some photos post-completion of the Hanse work. http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,17339.0/
  
« Last Edit: April 25, 2012, 04:27:01 PM by Doug Wright »
Twitter: @Deneuchre

Matthew Petersen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Denver CC Work
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2012, 04:25:36 PM »
Would not bringing Flynn concepts into a course that is not Flynn create an unbalanced course and impact the flow and personality of the course.

Yeah, there's really no flow or personality to the course, respective to something injected by any particular designer. That course has had more hands on it over the years than about any other I know of.

Matthew, that's interesting because I feel exactly the opposite. For all the architects who have worked on the course* (including   d changes to the course over 100+ years, including substantial rerouting and the addition of new holes due to road expansion in the adjacent streets, it flows very well and has retained its personality as a classical urban parkland golf course that is subtly challenging. Unlike some other older courses, the stewards of Denver CC's golf course have paid a lot of attention to this. Most recently Gil Hanse has been attentive to this as well.  There are only two parts to the course that I view as inconsistent with the overall look and feel of the course: the 4th green, which was done by a member in the 1930s and has tiers and bowls unlike the other greens (and is appreciated for its uniqueness) and the par 4 14th hole, which plays around a lake and feels like a hole that was moved from someplace like Florida. 

* DCC architects:

James Foulis (1903)
Donald Ross (1914-1922)
William Flynn (1923-1924)
Harry Collis (1925)
William Diddell (1957-1959)
J. Press Maxwell (1963-1965)
Ed Seay (1975-1978)
Bill Coore (1985-2010)
Gil Hanse (2011-Present)

Tiger, I'd agree with you except Flynn was a classical architect and his style fits well with the existing look of the course. In addition, the work done by Hanse was essentially a bunker project that moved some bunkers and reshaped bunkers. Gil took Flynn's course plans into account in doing the work, he didn't attempt to "Flynn-ize" the course.

The work is about done now--the full course opened last weekend. The finished product looks very good to me. The most signficant effect of the work is to increase interest and strategy for some shots that previously were less so, particularly for better players IMO.

Here is a link to a discussion about the course from 2005. When time allows (don't hold your breath though), I will try to get and post some photos post-completion of the Hanse work. http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,17339.0/
 

Yeah I sort of tried to hedge my statement even as I wrote it. The course itself is (and again I speak as not having seen it in well over a decade) is of a piece. But there's nothing there that signals the hand of one architect or another. It has a generic parkland feel, and I mean that in the nicest possible way.