[Tim Bert]

I just tend to look for less severe slopes in my own routings.

Interesting comment given that of all the modern courses I have played, the ones I always think have the most in common with Kingsley's fairways are Ballyneal and Sand Hills.  And on those two courses, my favorite fairways are perhaps Ballyneal 12 and Sand Hills 14 which are amongst the most wild on those two courses. 

Maybe I just like the severe stuff.

[Kalen Braley]

I just tend to look for less severe slopes in my own routings.

Interesting comment given that of all the modern courses I have played, the ones I always think have the most in common with Kingsley's fairways are Ballyneal and Sand Hills.  And on those two courses, my favorite fairways are perhaps Ballyneal 12 and Sand Hills 14 which are amongst the most wild on those two courses. 

Maybe I just like the severe stuff.

Tim,

When I think of canted fairways, I think of those that are sloped parallel to the line of play, not perpendicular.  While Ballyneal certainly has lots of the perpendicular variety of undulation...other than 17 which is a hogsback, I can't think of any other holes with much cant to them that go side to side.  Even 12 didn't have that much as I recall, but I may be remembering it wrong.

[Tim Bert]

Kalen - Agree with you that canted fairways mean more left to right how I'm thinking about it as well.  That being said, Tom sort of started with a point about canted fairways in his post about Kingsley but then I felt moved into a more general comment about the overall severity of slope, so I was following up on that.  Ballyneal #12, by the way, based on my recollection has a giant pit on the right side of the fairway - significantly lower than the left side and an extreme drop that I would consider an extreme canted portion of a fairway.

[Tom_Doak]

Kalen - Agree with you that canted fairways mean more left to right how I'm thinking about it as well.  That being said, Tom sort of started with a point about canted fairways in his post about Kingsley but then I felt moved into a more general comment about the overall severity of slope, so I was following up on that.  Ballyneal #12, by the way, based on my recollection has a giant pit on the right side of the fairway - significantly lower than the left side and an extreme drop that I would consider an extreme canted portion of a fairway.

Tim:

I actually had Eric Iverson do a little bit of surgery on the 12th fairway at Ballyneal to allow a few more balls to stay up along the right side, before heading down into the pit on the right.  Originally the tilt to the right started a bit closer to the bunkers; I didn't really want to shape it for fear of messing up the natural feel, but we were able to do it without anybody noticing.

In general, Ballyneal doesn't have a lot of severe sideslopes; most of the fairways are in bowls, many of which we softened with fill in the bottom.  There may be a "correct" side of the bowl to be on, but it's not like the ball is going to get away from you out one side of the fairway, except at #17, where I kept the steep slope in the middle even though we had to re-grade almost everything else!

Also, though I love Sand Hills #14, I wouldn't describe it as a sidesloping fairway.  There's just the one spot, which not everyone will reach, where the ball will motor way down to the left ... but it's not really going to stop on the side of that hill, it's so steep.

[Kalen Braley]

I've always thought canted fairways can work well if the architect has a feature that he wants the golfer to have to interface.

For example, if there is a nasty green-side bunker on the left hand side of the green, then having a canted fairway from right to left will mean almost everyone is approaching the green from the left hand side, bringing the bunker into play.  And the cants work well too when they are set on a diagonal to the line of play to spur interest as well.

[Tom_Doak]

I've always thought canted fairways can work well if the architect has a feature that he wants the golfer to have to interface.

For example, if there is a nasty green-side bunker on the left hand side of the green, then having a canted fairway from right to left will mean almost everyone is approaching the green from the left hand side, bringing the bunker into play.  And the cants work well too when they are set on a diagonal to the line of play to spur interest as well.

Kalen:

I hadn't thought about this for some time, but one of the champions of canted fairways (particularly canted approaches) is the original course at Stonewall.  You can bounce the ball into nearly every green, but only if you play for the high side of the green and land it short.  You have to choose your poison.

[Kalen Braley]

I've always thought canted fairways can work well if the architect has a feature that he wants the golfer to have to interface.

For example, if there is a nasty green-side bunker on the left hand side of the green, then having a canted fairway from right to left will mean almost everyone is approaching the green from the left hand side, bringing the bunker into play.  And the cants work well too when they are set on a diagonal to the line of play to spur interest as well.

Kalen:

I hadn't thought about this for some time, but one of the champions of canted fairways (particularly canted approaches) is the original course at Stonewall.  You can bounce the ball into nearly every green, but only if you play for the high side of the green and land it short.  You have to choose your poison.

Interesting stuff Tom,

I've always liked features like that that make you play it a few times before you really figure it out...especially when it involves the ground game here in the States.

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