[Ken Fry]

I don't think it was an architect as much as a RE developer that began to discourage golfers.  Say a Landmark Dev Corp type.  They tried to sell on difficulty and told the architect what to do. 

Mike,

I  agree the real estate developer component has put more pressure on architects to go bigger, harder and more extreme, but do you think it's possible that era was ushered in because the constant tweaking of "championship" courses?

Ken

[Mark_Rowlinson]

The very first course I played was a minor Colt course. Lilleshall Hall. It was summer, it was in fair shape and there were few other golfers there. I was unlikely to injure anybody with my dangerously wayward golf. Had it been winter, the place waterlogged, and filled with people playing their monthly medal I probably would not have played again.

However, I just can't understand any beginner being allowed out on PGA West or the like, whatever the depth of their purse. Is there not a need to show a valid handicap certificate? Is there not a handicap limit? What if they take chunks out of the green with their putter? Aren't they going to hold up play dreadfully, looking for all those balls when no one has any idea where it might have gone? What about the huge compulsory carries? What if they.....? There are so many awful possibilities.

Which competent golfer would be silly enough to take a first timer out on such a difficult course? Why not play one of the easier courses in the area? If I, as an experienced golfer, can be brought to my knees by some of these places, what might it do to someone with no experience? It doesn't bear thinking about. 

[Jeff_Brauer]

Mike,

In theory, putting a golf course in your back yard should get the prize for encouraging golfers to play!  It's putting PGA West in your backyard that might discourage it.  It would be interesting to see how many championship courses are in real estate, and how many members courses are in real estate? 

Let's not forget that Fazio and to a lesser degree Morrish made careers out of realizing that high end clubs, filled mostly with 50+ types, wanted a signature course that wasn't all that hard to play.  No wonder in my mind why Faz dominated that high end club market.  So, in any given era, its probably not possible to say there was one trend, even moresoe in the last boom where so many of us were working.

The above statement got me to wondering if guys like you and me are the biggest culprits?  We didn't get as many chances as Fazio, but we were all trying to get some recognition, and the best way to do that is a course of distinction, early buzz, etc.  So, instead of the top 10% being hard, all courses ended up being harder.......

BTW, as to Jones, did he ever design an easy golf course, or were all "championship courses" in the mold of his best or hardest, despite being aimed at a "course you could play every day?"

And, did that RTJ mentality (or the owners who hired him, and then us) really just take hold that a difficult course was a good course?  Are we all (including golfers) in this together?  I am thinking of a few projects where we had the idea of making the course somewhat easier, but as the project went on, the owner, architect, super, etc. all kept using the phrase "for a tournament......" and very specific things like widending the front of the green to create better access for average players morphed into "protecting the pin." 

Maybe TV is to blame?  Over time, it seems like we substitute the experience of what we see on TV golf in design, for the experience of what we actually experience on the golf course as half decent players.

[Adam Clayman]

I don't think it was an architect as much as a RE developer that began to discourage golfers.  Say a Landmark Dev Corp type.  They tried to sell on difficulty and told the architect what to do. 

Mike, To the difficulty point. I don't think it's as much poor design, but rather the maintenance presentations that have become standard.

If the Meld is right, a new golfer should be able to still have fun. Of course that's assuming the design isn't wrought with impossible carries over water or areas where a search for lost balls is all one does all day.

Hope you're well. I'd like the chance to speak with you, if the timing is right?

[Kalen Braley]

After playing the ball buster Idaho Club again this weekend....

...I can safely say the most discouraging thing I've ever faced on the course is to get beat over the head with difficult hole after difficult hole after difficult hole. By the 13th or so hole, I honestly didn't even care anymore if I shot par or double par on any given hole.  I was drubbed into submission with 10+ lost balls and just wanted to get the round over with.

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