[David_Elvins]

It's an outdoor sport

It's an outdoor sport, but a set of 18 greens costs a lot more to build and maintain than the average home. 

[jeffwarne]

It's an outdoor sport

It's an outdoor sport, but a set of 18 greens costs a lot more to build and maintain than the average home. 

 
Surely those expensive greens can tolerate walking accross them.


I truly thought your original post was sarcasm (and that i had taken the bait)
Changing shoes (twice!!) on every hole??

[Tim Bert]

Perhaps they should set a weight limit for golfers allowed to wear spikeless shoes.  Surely not all impressions are created equal.

[David Harshbarger]

I resemble that comment.

[David_Elvins]

I truly thought your original post was sarcasm (and that i had taken the bait)
Changing shoes (twice!!) on every hole??

Obviously it is not the ideal situation and you wouldn't do it at most good courses where the greens would be firm enough to handle the wear.  But you must remember there are all sorts of stupid things we do these days that have become so standard that they no longer feel stupid - eg. riding in carts, marking our ball on the green, putter covers, carrying 14 clubs, carrying a ball retriever to get the ball out of water hazards, drinking Gatorade, getting a post round massage from your caddy (in asia), etc. etc.  Changing shoes would be no different to any of these.  Seems stupid at first but manufacturers would adjust and design shoes that were easier to get on and off.  For putting you would just need slip on slippers,  and maybe a velcro system for spiked shoes. 

The other option would be some sort of retractable spike system. 

[Sam Morrow]

I think the clubs banning these shoes are the clubs that are old, blue blood clubs where the pro is a Titleist staffer, thus Foot-Joy.

Sam,

This is a dumb response whether it was meant to be funny or not.  Do you believe a pro would have the clout to pull this off?  Besides, Foot-Joy has a shoe available just like the ones being banned....

Ken

Ken,

 I was being half funny. There are plenty of clubs where a pro or someone else (club president, etc) has the clout to make a move like this. As for the Foot-Joy Street shoes don't forget that unlike the Ecco and Trues they have what is considered a traditional plastic spike.

[Sean_A]

It's already been proven that "looks can fool".  The 6mm steel spike had less impact on a putt than the softspike but itlooked worse on a green from the top view.  Put a plaster cast on the area and the soft spikes were much bumpier.  So if one chooses to ban eccos or Trues then they may as well ban the softspike.  The companies know the smooth sole tennis shoe has the least impact.  Have you noticed how many of the pros let their caddies get the ball out of the hole so that they don't step in the two foot circle?  Presently I don't think we have the answer for right spike yet. 

Mike

I disagree and don't need a study to say why.  People drag their feet with metal spikes and scar greens to hell.  This is next to impossible to do with soft spikes.  To be fair though, if greens aren't soft, the shoes aren't an issue.

Ciao

[Jon Wiggett]

[

Mike

I disagree and don't need a study to say why.  People drag their feet with metal spikes and scar greens to hell.  This is next to impossible to do with soft spikes.  To be fair though, if greens aren't soft, the shoes aren't an issue.

Ciao

Sean,

no its not impossible to scar greens with soft spikes. If you have a number of people walking across a green it will suffer some wear. Also I often think that the bumpiness that players playing at the end of the day attribute to traffic damage is due more to growth.

Jon

[Ken Fry]

I think the clubs banning these shoes are the clubs that are old, blue blood clubs where the pro is a Titleist staffer, thus Foot-Joy.

Sam,

This is a dumb response whether it was meant to be funny or not.  Do you believe a pro would have the clout to pull this off?  Besides, Foot-Joy has a shoe available just like the ones being banned....

Ken

Ken,

 I was being half funny. There are plenty of clubs where a pro or someone else (club president, etc) has the clout to make a move like this. As for the Foot-Joy Street shoes don't forget that unlike the Ecco and Trues they have what is considered a traditional plastic spike.

Sam,

As a golf pro if figured you were half joking.  You know any pro that sticks his neck out just to improve his golf retirement plus account may not be around long.  I stand corrected on th FJ Street soles.  I was under the impression they were waffle treads.

Ken

[Adrian_Stiff]

If the turf is thin spikeless shoes, ie one with cleats can cause damage. This is probably not a USA thing as you always have growth, but in the UK from Nov 1st - March 31st growth can be zero to minimal. In those periods any foot movement will do some degree of damage. I agree with Sean soft spikes do a lot less damage re spiking up but Jon is right when he says you could drag your feet and scag.

[Sean_A]

If the turf is thin spikeless shoes, ie one with cleats can cause damage. This is probably not a USA thing as you always have growth, but in the UK from Nov 1st - March 31st growth can be zero to minimal. In those periods any foot movement will do some degree of damage. I agree with Sean soft spikes do a lot less damage re spiking up but Jon is right when he says you could drag your feet and scag.

Adrian

Its quite difficult to drag your feet with soft spikes - they catch quite quickly - it almost has to be done intentionally.  Metal spikes slice through the turf causing the scrape marks - this was more a problem in the metal spikes days.  People get carried away making twisting or other motions after/watching putting and screw up the greens.  Still, firm greens is the real answer.

Ciao

[Jon Wiggett]

Adrian

Its quite difficult to drag your feet with soft spikes - they catch quite quickly - it almost has to be done intentionally.  Metal spikes slice through the turf causing the scrape marks - this was more a problem in the metal spikes days.  People get carried away making twisting or other motions after/watching putting and screw up the greens.  Still, firm greens is the real answer.

Ciao

Sean,

by them catching quite quickly just means the scuff mark is shorter but as soft spikes have multiple prongs they leave many more scars than the single metal spike which stands out more and maybe leads to a the feeling the scaring is worse.

Jon

[Tim Martin]

I truly thought your original post was sarcasm (and that i had taken the bait)
Changing shoes (twice!!) on every hole??

Obviously it is not the ideal situation and you wouldn't do it at most good courses where the greens would be firm enough to handle the wear.  But you must remember there are all sorts of stupid things we do these days that have become so standard that they no longer feel stupid - eg. riding in carts, marking our ball on the green, putter covers, carrying 14 clubs, carrying a ball retriever to get the ball out of water hazards, drinking Gatorade, getting a post round massage from your caddy (in asia), etc. etc.  Changing shoes would be no different to any of these.  Seems stupid at first but manufacturers would adjust and design shoes that were easier to get on and off.  For putting you would just need slip on slippers,  and maybe a velcro system for spiked shoes. 

The other option would be some sort of retractable spike system. 

David-Putting Slippers? Really?

[Bill_McBride]

Obviously the logical conclusion is everyone plays barefoot. 

In this thread every kind of golfing footware has been accused of damaging greens.

Maybe a class in not dragging one's feet would be helpful. 

[David_Elvins]

David-Putting Slippers? Really?

Sure.  There is a great opportunity for forward thinking investors, here.  Put a club logo or a limited edition Scotty Cameron pattern on these, and you could get very good money for these.  

[Emile Bonfiglio]

I guess we need to take the minimalist trend one step further....and just ban shoes.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Soft spikes are by far the best for least damage to the surface over metals.

[Steve Kline]

I think it is ridiculous to be banning Trues or Eccos. Shoes or not people leave marks on greens. Haven't you noticed heel prints on greens before? You could be barefoot and still mar greens. Therefore, I think we should ban fat people from greens. They leave bigger heel prints and compact the green more. And no leaning on your putters. <sarcasm off>

The fact of the matter is that none of us is good enough to worry about any of these imperfections in the greens.

[Jim Franklin]

I have been to plenty of houses where I have been required to take off my shoes before entering, and I have never been able to work out why we are not required to do the same before walking on a putting green.  You don't need spikes to putt and a pair of flat soled putting slippers would be quick to change into and improve green conditions.   

Great. Let's see if we can extend the time it takes to play a round of golf. This could be the single handed dumbest thing I have EVER read. Sorry David, I don't really want to sound like a pr!ck, but are you serious?

[Jim_Kennedy]

http://www.kickspike.com/sport.asp

[Tim Martin]

David-Putting Slippers? Really?

Sure.  There is a great opportunity for forward thinking investors, here.  Put a club logo or a limited edition Scotty Cameron pattern on these, and you could get very good money for these.  

David- I keep waiting for you to say-"I got ya" but you appear to be serious. Let me know how your dealings with the venture capital firms go with this idea.

[Peter Galea]

The fact of the matter is that none of us is good enough to worry about any of these imperfections in the greens.

Really?

[Bill Seitz]

The fact of the matter is that none of us is good enough to worry about any of these imperfections in the greens.

Really?

Peter, I can't speak to the ability of everyone on the site, but of the GCAers I've played with, the one who actually probably IS good enough to worry about imperfections in the greens is the guy you quoted. 

When I was in California in the late '80s through the mid '90s, I seem to recall a lot of places having problems with disease on the greens, and it was thought that metal spikes were one of the contributing factors.  Are there are any superintendents on the site who can speak to the difference that soft-spike or spikeless shoes have made with regard to the spread of disease? 

With regard to the Eccos/Trues, it seems that they tend to leave visible imprints on greens, yet I never actually see their imprints upon reaching the next green, which is to say that while they may leave an immediate impact, it would appear that greens bounce back pretty quickly.  I played a lot of golf over Labor Day with some GCAers, most of whom were wearing Trues.  By the end of the weekend, the dirt cart paths were covered with True footprints, but I don't recall once noticing their marks on the greens, which would be consistent with my theory.  Seems maybe there's more smoke than fire. 

[Jim_Kennedy]

From a 2000 report (from that evil assn.) on spikeless shoes:
 
Finally, there are some negatives about spikeless shoes regarding playing quality. Approximately 5% to 10% of golf courses experience damage or
pronounced indentations on greens as a result of spikeless shoes. The damage seems to be worse on wet, thatchy greens, but much of the problem stems from the fact that there are dozens of different types of spikeless shoes. It is not fair to assume that all spikeless shoes are automatically better for turf. Research on this topic is just beginning, and hopefully there will be more to come.

This was written before spikeless shoes were employing some of the more aggressive soles seen today.

[Rob Rigg]

This is comical.

Look at the soles on an adidas adipure and try to convince me that it has fewer "traction elements" that could leave imprints on a green than the TRUEs. Now check out a Foot Joy Icon and claim that the depth and placement of the soft spikes will mark up greens less than our outsole. I don't think so.

There is a reason that a bunch of head green keepers and maintenance staff where our shoes - one of which is that the imprints they leave on the green go away very quickly and it is really hard to "scuff" a green with our outsole.

Our '12 outsole will be even softer on the greens, but I still stand by our '11 outsole being as gentle as anything out there aside from tennis shoes and some running shoes.

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