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Melvyn Morrow

The following article from the 24th January 1933 explains his comment in detail. Wonder what your opinions are on the subject.

My own feeling are that it would have taken the skill out of putting making the Game poorer for the experience. I feel it would have had the opposite effect to what he was originally seeking.  







Any comments or thoughts on the subject?

Melvyn

« Last Edit: October 07, 2011, 05:36:31 PM by Melvyn Hunter Morrow »

RSLivingston_III

  • Karma: +0/-0
I think Braid has it right, make the hole smaller, if only for the pros. The small holes are a blast to putt to on courses that have them available on their practice greens.
"You need to start with the hickories as I truly believe it is hard to get inside the mind of the great architects from days gone by if one doesn't have any sense of how the equipment played way back when!"  
       Our Fearless Leader

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
I think Braid has it right, make the hole smaller, if only for the pros. The small holes are a blast to putt to on courses that have them available on their practice greens.

Agreed-When you hear the words perfect putt that is what you need to knock it in one of the small holes.

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Melvyn,

As you know, skill in golf is really only evident in comparison to someone else's skill. To that point, the US Tour did run a tournament or two back in about the 40's with an 8 inch hole and everyone thought what you think here...that it would take the skill out of putting. While it certainly did reduce the actual skill needed to hole a putt, in relative terms it played right into the hands of the better putters. Paul Runyan reportedly won by several shots while one putting just about every hole he didn't chip in.

But, for my opinion on it...leave the hole as is.

Ken Moum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Melvyn,

As you know, skill in golf is really only evident in comparison to someone else's skill. To that point, the US Tour did run a tournament or two back in about the 40's with an 8 inch hole and everyone thought what you think here...that it would take the skill out of putting. While it certainly did reduce the actual skill needed to hole a putt, in relative terms it played right into the hands of the better putters. Paul Runyan reportedly won by several shots while one putting just about every hole he didn't chip in.

But, for my opinion on it...leave the hole as is.

That's actually the real point here.  I am a much better putter and chipper than I am a ball striker, and I would absolutely KILL the guys I play with if we had an 8" hole.

I rarely miss any "makeable" putt by more than a couple of inches. so adding two inches to the radius of the hole would be a huge advantage for me.

K
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
I played in at least one 8" cup tournament a year when I was a kid.  They were common at the time in Iowa.  It really did not change the game that much once you adjusted.  An 8 foot putt became similar to a four foot putt on a regular hole.  You want to be a bit more aggressive because a five foot comeback putt is not a very long putt.

Putting and short game were just as important.

Cristian

  • Karma: +0/-0
You would be able to hole out at far greater speed as the hole is not just wider but also deeper, effectively one would be able to hit 'through the brake' on 99% of all putts. This would render all movement on greens virtually meaningless. I think the 8 inch hole would be the death of the short game and great green sites.

Matt MacIver

  • Karma: +0/-0
Bigger holes would speed up play and, perhaps, make it easier and more fun for beginners, so it might increase participation. 

But I'm not interested in seeing the cup any larger. 

But from an architectural standpoint I still love the idea of a sausage-shaped cup - can you imagine the strategy with different pin placements?

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
You would be able to hole out at far greater speed as the hole is not just wider but also deeper, effectively one would be able to hit 'through the brake' on 99% of all putts. This would render all movement on greens virtually meaningless. I think the 8 inch hole would be the death of the short game and great green sites.

You are correct that the hole out sped increases but instead of hitting it 18 inches past pursuant to Pelzs formula i think it would be 36 inches with an 8  inch cup. Speed still matters but my formula of treating an 8 foot putt as a 4 foot putt accounts for that difference.

In my experince putting can be just as frustrating.  The idea does not yield the benefit proponents hope for.

Carl Rogers

Suggestion...
have 2 cups per hole, 1 the 4 1/4" regulation and 1 - 10" diameter hole... faster & easier play for the beginner.

Melvyn Morrow


I am totally with the likes of James Braid,  J H Taylor, in fact I even like the words of wisdom from Harry Vardon. As for Sandy Herd’s comment, one has to wonder why people feel the need to try to either ruin or attempt variations which clearly are aimed at taking away the challenge and skill elements of the game. Yet to what purpose, simply to make the game easy, which IMHO is not and never was what golf is all about.

Is the reason for easy, simply the need to achieve a lower score – Hell I hope not, but with the ability to purchase the ‘State of the Art’ equipment (including all the add-ons), a player does not need to think or break into a mild sweat while they are whisked around the course. These players are not what are needed in a golf club or on a course. They constitute the equivalent of a virus, slowly consuming the very spirit of golf they originally worshiped. Is it true that the virus dies with its host, if so just exactly WHAT is achieved in the process?

Development to stabilise the games equipment, perhaps, but to blatantly use these improvements to enhance ones standing or score is IMHO despicable questioning ones very sporting ethics.

Melvyn


Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Maybe the pros should play with hickories and featheries.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Melvyn Morrow


Maybe the pros should play with hickories and featheries.

A typical comment one now comes to expect from a mentally corrupt and bankrupt mind.

Melvyn

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0

Maybe the pros should play with hickories and featheries.

A typical comment one now comes to expect from a mentally corrupt and bankrupt mind.

Melvyn


Even the most mentally corrupt among us occasionally can't resist the urge to stoop to the gutter and have a whack at an absolutist golf Luddite.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

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