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jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak is obviously playing too much golf
« Reply #100 on: February 01, 2013, 11:01:26 AM »
Tom,

  Bonus question: are there any good alligator stories from the construction of Streamsong?

Jim:

Not that I know of.  I do remember that when Bill and I were out there, we were particularly concerned about walking through the area which is now #8 fairway of the Blue course, because there were some low wet areas with a lot of bush around them.  Sure enough, when we cleared it out, we found the little pond that's to the right of #8 about 100-150 yards short of the green, and there was a resident alligator there who has never wanted to move out.

My best alligator story is from the third hole at Long Cove.  The hole has a lagoon 60 yards in front of the tee and all along the left side, and when we were building it (in 1981), we only had a tape measure to measure the holes.  P.B. Dye asked me to measure that one and we measured it around on dry land and added 60 yards for the tee shot, and I reported back that it was 570 yards.  He said that was impossible, and I said it was probably quite a bit shorter on the bee line over the water for your second shot.  P.B. had designed it so that some people could get home in two, so he wanted to know for sure how long it was.

So, he ordered us to go out and measure the direct line, by swimming with the tape measure across the lagoon.  One of my roommates from the mountains of S.C., Dan-O, was the designated swimmer.  I was the guy who stayed upstream and threw dirt clods at the resident alligator to keep him from bothering Dan-O.

I was bummed that I missed out in your auction for a round of golf with P.B., just because I wanted to laugh about stuff like that with him.

Yikes, Not sure the "good old days" were that good.
There were definitely alligators on that hole in my time there.

I think I might've just had to pull out the geometry on that measurement. (then guessed ;))
Didn't see many balls on that green in two in 3 years there
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak is obviously playing too much golf
« Reply #101 on: February 01, 2013, 11:11:55 AM »
Kye Goalby told me the resident alligator in the pond at #16 Red had lost an arm, and was therefore nicknamed "Tebow", because he had no arm.

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak is obviously playing too much golf
« Reply #102 on: February 01, 2013, 12:24:12 PM »
Kye Goalby told me the resident alligator in the pond at #16 Red had lost an arm, and was therefore nicknamed "Tebow", because he had no arm.

And if you end up in the water with him chasing you, swim in a straight line since he swims in circles.   ;) ;D
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Will Lozier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak is obviously playing too much golf
« Reply #103 on: February 01, 2013, 02:01:08 PM »
Tom,

That's one hell of an offer.

But, I'm going to do you a favor and declare the thread OVER as of this reply.

However, I will take you up on your offer to answer five (5) of my questions when we see each other, or, off line.

The questions I have aren't really for public consumption and I'd rather that you be perfectly at ease and free to respond without any concerns.

Sorry to disappoint the peanut gallery/treehouse

Greg Tallman,

The "what ever it is that I do" is......... work and enjoy my family and friends.

But, if I told you what else I did today, you'd be even more upset. ;D

Sven,

You love to speculate, I don't, so your question will just have to remain unanswered.

As to Sebonack, why don't you ask Tom Doak who suggested the joint venture with Nicklaus in the first place ;D

Over and out.


Lame...but not all that disappointing.

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak is obviously playing too much golf
« Reply #104 on: February 01, 2013, 02:17:18 PM »

Sven and Patrick get to ask me five questions each, about the collaborative process in general, about Sebonack in particular, or about whatever the hell they want. 

And I'll answer them truthfully and as completely as I can. 

But they've got to promise the thread is OVER after that. 

And they'd better not make me ask what part of OVER they didn't understand.

Tom,

That's one hell of an offer.

But, I'm going to do you a favor and declare the thread OVER as of this reply.

However, I will take you up on your offer to answer five (5) of my questions when we see each other, or, off line.

The questions I have aren't really for public consumption and I'd rather that you be perfectly at ease and free to respond without any concerns.

Sorry to disappoint the peanut gallery/treehouse

Greg Tallman,

The "what ever it is that I do" is......... work and enjoy my family and friends.

But, if I told you what else I did today, you'd be even more upset. ;D

Sven,

You love to speculate, I don't, so your question will just have to remain unanswered.

As to Sebonack, why don't you ask Tom Doak who suggested the joint venture with Nicklaus in the first place ;D

Over and out.
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Patrick,

You obviously underestimate yourself as not only do you not upset me you actually provide moments of levity at just the right time.

John_Cullum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak is obviously playing too much golf
« Reply #105 on: February 01, 2013, 02:52:18 PM »
You Yankees greatly overestimate the ability of an alligator to create excitement
"We finally beat Medicare. "

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak is obviously playing too much golf
« Reply #106 on: February 01, 2013, 02:58:35 PM »
You Yankees greatly overestimate the ability of an alligator to create excitement


John,
I had a cat in Hilton Head who would've wishes they were less exciting.
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Tom Doak is obviously playing too much golf
« Reply #107 on: February 04, 2013, 11:21:13 PM »
The book, "Building Sebonack" is well worth acquiring and I'd recommend it to everyone.

Tom Doak,

I too think that Jones made the choice of MacKenzie after being exposed to his work.
At the time, MacKenzie was a spectacular architect, with recognition of same.

Jones was a great golfer.
And, as you've often alluded to, being a great golfer doesn't necessarily equate to being a good to great architect.


I suspect Jones was well acquainted with Mackenzie before 1929.  With his survey and wonderful map of The Old Course (which I was amazed by in Peter Dawson's office, the map is huge!), Mackenzie was an acknowledged expert on the course.  Jones was in love with the course from the early '20's, surely he was very familiar with Mackenzie from the UK if not with his US work.

I couldn't find any documented evidence that MacKenzie met Jones prior to 1929.

While it's possible, maybe even probable that they met at the 1927 Open, there's no record of any such meeting.
Ditto for the 1926 Walker Cup.

As to Jones having an autographed book from MacKenzie, Jones did win the 1927 Open at TOC, hence I can see Mackenzie mailing sending him a copy of "The Spirit of St Andrews"

Jones hated the course until he won on the course.
Winning changes a lot of people's perspectives


Jim Colton

Re: Tom Doak is obviously playing too much golf
« Reply #108 on: February 05, 2013, 11:20:59 AM »

I have been thinking about conversations here recently on how to route a golf course, and I'm happy to report that I am going to do something about it.  I told four of my interns while we were in Florida that they are going to help me prepare a book or a CD that shows all of our best projects and how the routing decisions were made -- so that I can teach them, and in the process we'll try to teach everyone else.  That will obviously be a lot more detailed than a single post on Golf Club Atlas.

"Doak to deliver new book on routing" I'm surprised we haven't seen this newsflash posted on the blogosphere yet.

As someone who overheard a bit about this project last week, frankly I'm ten times more excited about this project than the updated Confidential Guide.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Tom Doak is obviously playing too much golf
« Reply #109 on: February 05, 2013, 02:01:28 PM »

"Doak to deliver new book on routing" I'm surprised we haven't seen this newsflash posted on the blogosphere yet.

As someone who overheard a bit about this project last week, frankly I'm ten times more excited about this project than the updated Confidential Guide.

Well, it may or may not wind up in book form, so I'm not looking to publicize it much at this point.  It's still unclear how we will put it together.  But, we start working on it Thursday!

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak is obviously playing too much golf
« Reply #110 on: February 06, 2013, 12:19:57 PM »
"A Confidential Route"
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle