Appropriate Club Punishment for Injuring Caddie

[Terry Lavin]

The Board suspended the member until January 2013.  I asked for expulsion, but there weren't enough votes for that penalty.  It's been an upsetting month, mostly because the member involved refused to admit that he had thrown the club in anger, leading a group of his pals to vigorously support him with the "it slipped" defense that has now been withdrawn.  This issue has caused a lot of pain and consternation, much of which could have been avoided had the individual "manned up" from the get go.

can i ask what club this is?

Do you think the member will stay or just resign and join another club?

I am not going to name the club or the involved individual.

[archie_struthers]

   


Lots of impact on the clubs play based on how the caddy and player left it and their relationship.  If he's of the mind to sue, there's little the club can do but wave a flag of surrender.  Having been hit a few times by errant shots in my youth but never really hurt, it weighs heavily. It's stupid but an accident, if the caddy is cool , so should the club be cool.  If he is badly hurt ,all bets are off!




Being a reformed tosser I can see how an accident could happen .  How about bad cart drivers   There has to be some analysis of intent , and I am certainly not a apologist for rude , boorish behavior.

[Jay Flemma]

"Treat your caddy as you would your son (or daughter)"

Perhaps he was, which to me has always been the inherent flaw in that slogan.

That's why I amend it to, "treat your caddie as your friend and partner."  He's your good right arm out there!

[michael damico]

what about punishment for injuring a maintenance worker?

[Mike_Trenham]

Alll I can say is I just got back (way too early) from the calcuta at my club and what passes for acceptable behavior today at clubs is pittiful.

Terry I really feel for you, I know your club has a place close to your heart just like mine.  But these just below the top level clubs like ours have probably changed the most in the last decade....

[JLahrman]

The member must certainly be aware that his excuse of the club slipping isn't believed and that his reputation was well known throughout the membership.

Who could possibly want to show his face there again?

The kind of guy who has behaved as this member has.

[jeffwarne]

Wow!  And here I thought that golf was a gentleman's game, particularly at high-end private clubs which nurture caddie programs.  I hope that the young man comes through this well.  I suspect that the offending member, once all the legal dust settles, will hold the Guinness World's Record in perpetuity for the highest caddie fee.

I do have to ask, was intent an issue here?  How many among us have not seen clubs flying through the air and other serious reckless behavior on the course?  I am curious, was the matter referred to the authorities for investigation?

Decades ago, an acquaintance known for his reckless driving in his muscle car got T-boned when ran a stop sign.  His little brother was riding shotgun and died at the scene.  I remember the funeral, seeing the very contrite driver, and hearing the priest trying to find a sliver of good in this horrific event (the usual "he is in a better place" and "let it serve as a constant reminder when we get behind the wheel").  Some time afterwards, I am driving out in the country when I hear the loud mufflers explode as a four-barrell carb is pushed wide open and a car passes me like I am sitting still.  You got it.  Same driver.  Lesson apparently unlearned.  I hope the member and all others there and here do take this sad episode to heart.      

This is easily the most disheartening episode in my 25 years of being a member at this club.  It has soured me to the point that I've drafted my resignation letter.  You wouldn't believe the kind of crap my fellow members and former friends were saying about me and my nephew.  Just disgusting.  

Does anyone besides me find that more alarming than the club throwing

[John Kavanaugh]

This is easily the most disheartening episode in my 25 years of being a member at this club.  It has soured me to the point that I've drafted my resignation letter.  You wouldn't believe the kind of crap my fellow members and former friends were saying about me and my nephew.  Just disgusting.  As for the club thrower, I sure hope I never hear that he throws another club.  I'd like to think his contrition would be real and that he'd reform himself, or just quit the game.  A leopard, after all, isn't all that likely to change its spots.

Terry,

I truly admire the character you have shown though this event. I did not know you were a member of the course. They have given you little choice but to resign. It was their choice.

Btw.  See how October plays out and then decide.  There is no reason to pay dues all winter and then resign next year.

[PThomas]

 I'd try and press chareges, sue him, anything I could think of

hope your nephew is alright

[G Jones]

It's been a long time since I posted here, but wanted to add a comment.

Firstly, I have no time for people who behave like this. Losing your temper on a golf course is not acceptable, let alone throwing clubs.

However, I would like to draw everyone's attention to the fact that in his youth, Bobby Jones was known for throwing clubs, and during a tournament he hit a lady spectator with a club that he threw.

The national media ridiculed him, other golfers publicly denounced him, but he was given a second chance, and not only did he never throw a club again, but he went on to become one of golf's most respected gentlemen.

The point is, until he was called out on it, he didn't change. In fact, those who didn't punish him for his earlier (non-injury-causing) club throwing are complicit in the eventual injury caused. But also, that the first time he was reprimanded he was given a second chance.

It's one thing to kick a guy out if he's already been warned. But if many people know that a guy has behaved like this, and no one has picked him up on it, morally (though maybe not legally) it's probably correct to give a second chance with a very stern warning plus financial compensation.

That's just my two pence worth... and I should add that a) again, this guy still sounds like a nasty piece of work, b) I didn't read the final two pages and so am not commenting here on any unacceptable behaviour of the guy post-the event, and c) that Bobby did own up to what he'd done, so if this guy didn't then maybe that changes things...

[Steve Salmen]

Terry,

Wishing your nephew a safe and speedy recovery.

Reading this post has me wondering two things.  Why would anybody want to play golf with this guy? Why would a club want to have him as a member in the first place (let alone a fantastic club such as this?)

Kind Regards,
Steve

[Terry Lavin]

The guy claims that the club slipped out of his hands and it was unfortunate that it ended up in the young man's face.

His main defender tried to sell me on the theory that the golfer flipped the club toward the cart and it hit the kid after an unlucky carom. Trying to soften the blow. To the member's ego, of course as if it would make any difference. Ultimately there are three aspects that animate this sad tale. First, the thrower had a long history of losing his temper in various ways on the course. Second, he lied and said it slipped during a normal shot. Third, his friends accepted his calumny and argued that I was unfairly persecuting a fellow member who had an unfortunate unpreventible accident. The combination was remarkably virulent. Had he manned up admitted his problem and quit voluntarily, this could have been much less damaging from many perspectives. As always the lie worsened the outcome significantly.

[Bill Seitz]

Terry, this whole incident is very upsetting to hear, especially considering how much that club appears to mean to you.  I'm sure I'm not alone in saying that those of us who've played with you have sensed how much you've enjoyed being a member there.

When I started playing golf as a kid, my dad told me that if he ever caught me throwing a club, he'd never take me to play golf again.  And while I can't say I've never acted on a golf course in a way that I didn't later regret, it's a message that's stuck.  This is another data point.  Simple negligent fits of anger can have widespread consequences.  I can't say I've never been tempted to throw a club, but every time I am, stories like this run through my mind.  I've played with some people that sound like this guy, and I've always gotten the impression that they could be better golfers if they could control their emotions.  The best golfers know that poor shots are part of the game, what's done is done, and there's no use crying over spilled milk.  Unfortunately, not only has this person never learned that message, but he's created a great deal of collateral damage in the process.  And I'd agree with Steve.  I can't see why anyone would want to spend four hours with a guy with a reputation of behaving like this.  Maybe it makes them think twice about their own safety. 

Hopefully this guy either resigns on his own, or takes the next year to learn a valuable lesson and comes back a changed individual.  It's also very disheartening to hear about your treatment in this affair.  Best of luck to your nephew. 

[John Kavanaugh]

Matron Mama Morton: In this town, murder's a form of entertainment

Chicago culture is quick to embrace the lowest forms of civilized society. Even Jeffrey Dahlmer and John Wayne Gacy are cult heroes. This guy will be back in the fold the minute he arrives for his first tee time.

[Sven Nilsen]

Matron Mama Morton: In this town, murder's a form of entertainment

Chicago culture is quick to embrace the lowest forms of civilized society. Even Jeffrey Dahlmer and John Wayne Gacy are cult heroes. This guy will be back in the fold the minute he arrives for his first tee time.

That's a pretty wide brush you're using there Pablo.

[Terry Lavin]

Matron Mama Morton: In this town, murder's a form of entertainment

Chicago culture is quick to embrace the lowest forms of civilized society. Even Jeffrey Dahlmer and John Wayne Gacy are cult heroes. This guy will be back in the fold the minute he arrives for his first tee time.

But, of course. He's a victim.

[John Kavanaugh]

Matron Mama Morton: In this town, murder's a form of entertainment

Chicago culture is quick to embrace the lowest forms of civilized society. Even Jeffrey Dahlmer and John Wayne Gacy are cult heroes. This guy will be back in the fold the minute he arrives for his first tee time.

But, of course. He's a victim.

Just wait until he spends a year on the side lines garnering sympathy for his plight. You my friend are indeed the villain. It is all so clear. Fuck every one of those assholes who are in bed with him. Let them slurp of the shit soup they have brewed. You are better than that. They don't deserve the right to say they are a member of the same club as you. Butter their toast and serve them eggs over easy as they walk through life with the yoak of douche dom glistening from their lips. We shall know their kind and smile as we turn away.

[Sam Morrow]

Wasn't Dahmer in Milwaukee?

[John Kavanaugh]

Wasn't Dahmer in Milwaukee?

No, he was in the Lake County Illinois system where my wife was a social worker at the time. Where he was convicted is immaterial.

[John Kavanaugh]

Come to think of it, has there ever been an Australian serial killer?  That's not a drill, this is a drill.

[David_Elvins]

Terry,

I wish your nephew a speedy and full recovery.  It sounds like a terrible incident.

In what role were you adressing the board asking for a fellow member to be expelled?  Is it normal for members to involve themselves in the disciplinary process of fellow members beyond the reporting of an incident?

[Mark_F]

Come to think of it, has there ever been an Australian serial killer?  That's not a drill, this is a drill.

TWP - they have murdered many a fine site and course.

Any AFL umpire who officiates in a Geelong game - they murder the opposition time and time again in favour of the handbaggers.

[Greg Tallman]

The Board suspended the member until January 2013.  I asked for expulsion, but there weren't enough votes for that penalty.  It's been an upsetting month, mostly because the member involved refused to admit that he had thrown the club in anger, leading a group of his pals to vigorously support him with the "it slipped" defense that has now been withdrawn.  This issue has caused a lot of pain and consternation, much of which could have been avoided had the individual "manned up" from the get go.

So this jerk will have access to a caddie after serving his suspension? You must be kidding me. Make the jerk carry his own while his buddies (assuming there are numerous other"like minded" individuals at this club) enjoy the services of a caddie.

[Terry Lavin]

I've turned the proverbial page, if not the other cheek. What's done is done.

[Chris Flamion]

And now my daughter is done caddying....