[Michael George]

I think the excitement around Dismal River is due to 2 factors:

1.  The building of the Doak course.  I think many people on the string saw the layout in the early summer and they are excited.  Those that haven't seen it know what TD did at Ballyneal and what C&C did at Sand Hills and are excited about the possibility.  Also, we are relying on those that have seen it.  In addition, Chris' input is giving us an inside look that many of us have never had.

2.  I think many people think the Nicklaus course is underrated based on their experience and feel it deserves more love than the raters and magazines give it.  This site loves the underappreciated gem - see the multiple links on Marquette and Kingsley.  Dismal seems to fit that category. 

Lastly, what better do we have to talk about?  Which course Donald Trump may buy next and add a gaudy waterfall to?  The Tour criticism of golf courses? - which I am forever done with - ugghhh.

Just my humble opinion.

[John Kavanaugh]

In all fairness to John Conley, he didn't have that avatar in 06, Dismal is not the same course it was when it opened.  I'm not saying that the raters or magazines who went to see the course got it wrong.  This is an example of a turn around that I am not sure the golf world has ever seen.  Well maybe Yale.  At least never seen so quickly on a modern course.

I think it is a great story.  I know people are sick of it so am going to start a Twitter novel. #Dismal

[Mac Plumart]

I know people are sick of it

Who's sick of it?  Mike and Scott?  If they don't like this thread (or threads on Dismal and/or the construction of a golf course from the ground up), they don't have to read it.  Hey, I've got an idea.  Why don't they start a thread they are interested in!  No one is making them read this one or any others.

[Jud_T]

The excitement is there for a number of reasons:

1.  It's a new Doak course, buttboy line forms to the left (behind me  ).
2.  There are only a handful of interesting new courses on this continent in development.
3.  The turnaround of this club is a very compelling positive story, of which there aren't many in the business at the moment.
4.  This potentially firmly cements the Sandhills region as one of the best trips in the country and should benefit all the courses in the area.
5.  The play-by-play is porn for the armchair beardpullers.

[Ben Sims]

Lost in all the hubub about Dismal's turnaround and the great people Chris has brought together out there, is the way in which the new golf course is being built.

No doubt that the terrain is very good, but the routing does a terrific job of complmenting it.  But more than the routing, there is an efficiency to this design that makes it a good study.  Some concepts that have been used sparingly in the past (tied in turf area, natural/existing teeing areas, irrigation efficiencies) are all featured here.

For instance, I'd love to know the number of heads per irrigated acre of turf at Dismal #2 vs. the Prairie Club or even Dismal #1.  Heck, an offline (non-public) study of cost per head of the irrigation system vs. other state of the art systems would be cool.

I'd also be interested in a discussion of the cultivar selection for the three seedings (greens, fairways, native). 

After seeing the routing a half dozen times, green site selection has been a big learning point. 

There's alot to be excited about in regards to this topic.  And I'd argue that anyone that isn't isn't interested in what this or the construction thread can offer isn't truly interested in golf architecture or golf courses.

[Mike Benham]

Polarizing?  Now that is funny. I didn't know it still was. Please explain.

Perhaps polarizing isn't the best word but maybe Dismal River has contributed to keeping college football, the Red Sox near collapse and Albert Pujols last games in a Cardinal uniform from the OT topics ...

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

I cannot wait to go back to Dismal sometime next summer and see he changes....lat time I was there about 5 holes were just awful and left me wondering how good this place really could have been...I hope to find the answer to that question...and now another 18 to look at as well.

It is a wonderful place, the lodgings were tremendous, the food awesome and the staff second to none.
I had a great time last tme but was I admit dissapointed in the golf course...that was two summers ago.

I look forwrad to having the opportunity to change my opinion.

[Scott Warren]

Jason and Mac: There was never any suggestion from me that a thread detailing and discussing the design and construction of RGD's new course at Dismal River isn't a wonderful thing for this site and, in fact, I'd probably agree if someone said it should be pinned to the top of the front page.

Read my post again without the red mist -- there is no suggestion that such a thread isn't a great thing for this site, simply a light-hearted, tongue-in-cheek comment about how many wingmen that thread has...

[John Kavanaugh]

Polarizing?  Now that is funny. I didn't know it still was. Please explain.

Perhaps polarizing isn't the best word but maybe Dismal River has contributed to keeping college football, the Red Sox near collapse and Albert Pujols last games in a Cardinal uniform from the OT topics ...

Was there a buzz about the new course over on Ben's Porch during your recent visit?

[John Kavanaugh]

Jason and Mac: There was never any suggestion from me that a thread detailing and discussing the design and construction of RGD's new course at Dismal River isn't a wonderful thing for this site and, in fact, I'd probably agree if someone said it should be pinned to the top of the front page.

Read my post again without the red mist -- there is no suggestion that such a thread isn't a great thing for this site, simply a light-hearted, tongue-in-cheek comment about how many wingmen that thread has...

Wingmen? Keiser had Klein and Bahto, Chris has Mac, Eric and me. Now that's marketing 201.

[Scott Warren]

John, I am referring to the numerous other threads, not the people posting in them.

[Mac Plumart]

No "red mist" Scott.  Like I said in my previous post, no one is making you read any post on GCA.  You elect to.  If it is not interesting to you, there are plenty more to choose from.

[John Kavanaugh]

John, I am referring to the numerous other threads, not the people posting in them.

No problem, it was a fine joke, I even agree to the point that Dismal is now a part of Doak free Friday's on GCA. The Twitter novel is exempt. #Dismal

[George Pazin]

Lighten up, folks, Scott was just exhibiting some of his dry humor.

I'm happy to see the many Dismal threads, though I think in fairness to John C and others, this one may have been best left un-bumped. But hey, the more the merrier, so maybe not. Maybe it's really worth examining for the reasons stated above.

[Scott Szabo]

Lost in all the hubub about Dismal's turnaround and the great people Chris has brought together out there, is the way in which the new golf course is being built.

No doubt that the terrain is very good, but the routing does a terrific job of complmenting it.  But more than the routing, there is an efficiency to this design that makes it a good study.  Some concepts that have been used sparingly in the past (tied in turf area, natural/existing teeing areas, irrigation efficiencies) are all featured here.

For instance, I'd love to know the number of heads per irrigated acre of turf at Dismal #2 vs. the Prairie Club or even Dismal #1.  Heck, an offline (non-public) study of cost per head of the irrigation system vs. other state of the art systems would be cool.

I'd also be interested in a discussion of the cultivar selection for the three seedings (greens, fairways, native). 

After seeing the routing a half dozen times, green site selection has been a big learning point. 

There's alot to be excited about in regards to this topic.  And I'd argue that anyone that isn't isn't interested in what this or the construction thread can offer isn't truly interested in golf architecture or golf courses.

Ben,

It would be an interesting read if you'd start a thread about your time at Dismal and the work that you got to be a part of.  What say you?

[Dan Kelly]

I think it is a great story.  I know people are sick of it so am going to start a Twitter novel. #Dismal

A little birdie recommends: short story.

Tweet-tweet.

[Anthony Gray]

  I do hope that Dismal 2 is the new Old Mac. It will be exciting watching the construction of the course. Great for the DG.

  Anthony

[C. Squier]

No "red mist" Scott.  Like I said in my previous post, no one is making you read any post on GCA.  You elect to.  If it is not interesting to you, there are plenty more to choose from.

Lighten up.  Glad you like your club, but you don't have to defend it like it's your own mother.  Scott's post was obviously tongue in cheek. 

Then again, I hate jokes that have a little truth in them too. 

[Mac Plumart]

Glad you like your club, but you don't have to defend it like it's your own mother

What an ignorant statement.  I'm not defending the club or the course.  I've said over and over and over again, it isn't for everyone...and detailed reasons why.  I'm not even defending it here.  I said if you don't want to talk about the club...go to another thread. 

[Dan Herrmann]

Mike Benham (regarding post #80).

When I got to DR, I had no idea that Doak was building a new course out there.  All I knew was that the "chef" was cooking up something special - honestly, I thought it was a special dinner or something!

Let me tell you my impressions - Laura and I were greeted with sincere kindness upon our arrival.  We marveled at the views and took a cart down to our cabin.  The cabin was huge, clean, and fit perfectly into the scenery.  The back door opened to a vista of bucolic wonder.

We got dressed and headed back up to the clubhouse.  They told us how to get to the course and to have fun.

After about 10 minutes we got to the 1st tee.  Loved the Notre Dame "Play Like a Champion Today" sign (my nephew is a freshman at ND this year).  

Fell in love with the place on the 1st hole.  Up to the right were cattle high up on a hill, meadowlarks singing, and a damn good golf course ahead of us.

So we're having a great time and Chris drives up with his Mountain Dog when we're over on the 6th tee.   We had a great talk and we started playing again.

Get back to the 13th, and I start talking with one of the guys on the green crew.  Really nice guy that really LOVED his job.  (I love meeting people on the golf course).

Finished 18, and I remember saying to Laura, "Wow!".

So, no, the Doak course didn't wow me - the current Jack course wowed me.

On July 4, we were fortunate enough to play Sand Hills and stay overnight.   Sand Hills deserves every superlative it gets.

Trust me, the 3 days at Dismal (Thanks to the 5th Major) and the day at Sand Hills were the best golf vacation I've ever had.  Ever.

[Chris Johnston]

All:

Long day driving from Mullen to Jackson Hole.

First, Tim Kratz is a great guy.  He is a friend, remains a very active member and was part of the group that built Dismal River.  He and both the other "originals" and the second group have my respect and they deserves yours.  Similar to alot of places, a ton of sacrifices were made to get her going.
,
Second, this post started out as fun, comments were made in fun even if a bit snarky, and I agree with Mac that there are several oprions in nterms of threads.  One thing I can tell you, the Dismal crew loves and appreciates golf, be it Sand Hills, Ballyneal, or Dismal River.  I like that they support everyone and try to keep divisions down. 

I'll be the first to tell youm Dismal isn't for everyone.  No course is.  I enjoy people who love their club - it is very cool.  It probably also the reason they joined.  I joined Sand Hills 17 years ago - 1995 -  several years before the notoriety.  The early members fell in love with something unique and different.  I never really cared about the rating, I just loved the place.  The people there became like family.  I miss Jim Kidd, and his faithful companion, Gus.  I watched Dick Youngscap recreat a bunker (backhoe) after a major gully washer.  I watch the weather - sometime they get it and we don't and vice versa, and call often to offer help.

Dan - thanks for the comments.  The course is good but the staff, members and guests make it come alive.

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